美国欲新建770英里的超音速飞机测试通道,被网友群嘲
2021-01-04 熊猫永不为奴 24243
正文翻译

America's Federal Aviation Agency signed an agreement with the state of Kansas's department of transportation to establish a 770-nautical mile Kansas Supersonic Transportation Corridor for testing aircraft up to Mach 3, reports Aviation International News:

据《航空国际新闻》报道,美国联邦航空局与堪萨斯州交通部签署了一项协议,他们将在堪萨斯建立一条770英里的超音速运输走廊,用于测试新飞机:



NASA plans to use the Lockheed Martin X-59 demonstrator to test low-boom noise effects over various populations. "I'm really excited about quiet supersonic technology and its ability to be transformative for flight and our economy," said NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine.

NASA计划使用洛克希德·马丁公司的X-59演示机,来测试对不同人群的低爆噪声效果(简单说:让新的超音速飞机从人群上空飞过,看看有什么特殊影响)。美国宇航局局长吉姆表示:“我对‘静音’超音速技术,及其未来改变超音速飞行领域,和经济方面的影响感到非常期待。”

Aerion, meanwhile, plans to test "Boom Cruise" technology that is designed to keep the sonic boom from reaching the ground with plans to begin flight trials in 2025, while Boom is looking at low boom technologies for its commercial airliner Overture.

与此同时,Aerion计划测试“爆轰巡航”(Boom Cruise)技术,该技术主要是想办法阻止音爆传到地面,他们计划在2025年开始飞行试验,而Boom公司还在他们的商业客机领域研究低爆轰技术。

评论翻译
主楼:

The occasional boom might be tolerable Imagine the 24 hour rumble from constant traffic

偶尔的“音爆噪音”还可能可以忍受,但想象一下连续24小时的交通噪音轰炸……

Re:
That's the sound of freedom! It's a shame that nobody said "Imagine the 24 hour rumble" when they choose light rail track routes. But then those were easily sited in poor neighborhoods. So, no problem.

那是自由的声音!!
当他们可以自由选择轻轨线路时,没有人会说“想象一下24小时的轰鸣声”是一种遗憾……不然,那些轻轨就会被建在贫穷的社区,所以,(超音速飞机通道)没有问题。

Re:
Yeah you think only poor neighborhoods are subject to zone terrorism?
Every major metropolitan area has multiple international airports and is does not matter how rich or poor the surrounding neighborhoods are, it is a continual war over the zoning of the flight paths, its rich vs rich, rich vs poor, poor vs rich, and poor vs poor. Its every neighborhood against every other neighborhood and the fight is continuous. Its a war that cannot be won, only temporary superiority can be had.

你认为只有贫穷的社区才会受到区域噪音的影响?
每个主要大都市都有多个国际机场,不管周围的社区有多富或多穷,这是一场持续不断的飞行路线划分战争,富人vs富人,富人vs穷人,穷人vs穷人,争论一直存在。这是一场谁也无法取胜的争论,只能拥有暂时的优势。

Re:
And many of those airports were originally located in empty areas, only to have the people build out toward them.And, when efforts are made to build airports even further removed from population, the population fights them because they're too far away.That's kind of why Chicago Midway still exists... It's too convenient to too many people, compared to the alternatives.

很多机场原本都是在空无一人的地方,只是为了让人们朝机场的方向扩建房子。而且,当人们努力修建远离人群的机场时,人群又会因为距离机场太远而选择靠近机场。
这就是芝加哥中途机场仍然存在的原因……与其他选择相比,它对很多人来说太方便了。


Re:
The taxi lobby doesn't like that.

出租车司机们不会喜欢这些。

Re:
Don't give them a voice.

不要给他们发言权。

Re: The occasional boom might be tolerable
Tokyo Narita airport has both the Narita Express and Skyliner express trains, on different routes departing from several of the busiest train stations in Tokyo and Yokohama. Both of these trains have very limited stops and reach reasonably high speeds. This is in addition to numerous bus services, also from busy and important transit hubs in the city. Regardless, it's still a 40+ minute journey no matter what method is chosen. It's still preferred for most people to fly to Haneda airport, which is much cl

比如东京成田机场既有成田特快列车,也有Skyliner特快列车,分别从东京和横滨最繁忙的几个火车站出发。这两种列车的停靠站都非常有限,但速度却很高。
除此之外,还有大量的公共汽车服务,也来自城市繁忙和重要的交通枢纽。无论人们选择什么方法出行,大多只需要40多分钟的旅程,而大多数人仍然更喜欢飞到羽田机场

Re:
I would have said LaGuardia. Shit airport but the rich folks won't let it close. It has no subway service. Because rich people don't ride subways.

我会说是拉瓜迪亚。那里的机场糟透了,但富人们不会让它关闭的。它也没有地铁,因为富人不坐地铁。

Re:
Easier to enjoy the service that way.. You wouldn't want to need a 20 mile bus ride out to the train, would you?

这样更容易享受服务。你不会想坐20英里的公交车去坐飞机吧?



Re:Width of Kansas = 356 n miles (Score:5, Informative)
by JoeyRox ( 2711699 ) on Saturday December 26, 2020 @03:00PM (#60867714)
It's not a single run of linear airspace. FTA:

这不是单一的线性空间。

Re:
Can a mach-3 craft make those turns at speed?

3马赫飞机能在这种高速下转弯吗?

Re:Width of Kansas = 356 n miles (Score:4, Informative)
by crunchygranola ( 1954152 ) on Saturday December 26, 2020 @03:44PM (#60867802)
Can a mach-3 craft make those turns at speed?
They are probably just flying the two long straight runs at Mach 3, slowing for the turns, then accelerating for the next straight run.
The turn radius at 1000 m/s (about Mach 3) with a 2 G force, is 51 km (27.5 nautical miles).

他们可能只是以3马赫的速度进行了两次长距离直飞,在转弯时减速,然后在下一次直飞时加速。
在2g力下,1000米/秒(约3马赫)的转弯半径为51公里(27.5海里)。

Re:
By that criterion, Interstate-80 from NYC to SF is 6000 miles long since it goes in both directions.

按照这个标准,从纽约到旧金山的80号州际公路有6000英里长,因为它是双向的。



Re:
Not only that, but they also use knots for speed, which work nicely with nautical miles for when calculations are needed.

不仅如此,他们还用节来表示速度,当需要计算时,可以很好地计算出海里。

Re:
Please, don't confuse me with facts when we are talking "gee whiz" and politics.

拜托,当我们在谈论"gee whiz"和政治的时候,别东扯西扯把我弄糊涂。




Re:
When I was young they didn't publish notices in newspapers of when we could hear the sound of freedom. It would just happen. We kids always thought it was cool. Don't remember any adults complaining either. A few years later there were no more booms.

在我年轻的时候,他们不会在报纸上刊登我们什么时候可以听到自由的声音。它就这样发生了,我们这些孩子总觉得很酷,也不记得有成年人抱怨过。但几年后,我再也没有听过音爆了。


Re:
It was noise that forced it to fly only over the ocean, crippling its utilization.

巨大的噪音迫使超音速飞机只能在海洋上空飞行,削弱了它的利用能力。

Re:
But for that, there might have been a lucrative market from NY to CA

若非如此,从纽约到加州可能会有一个利润丰厚的市场

Re:
No, it was being invented outside of the US that forced it to fly over ocean. US fighter jets fly over residential areas all the time.

不,它(音爆限制等等规则吧)是在美国以外发明的,这迫使它只能在海洋上飞,美国战斗机一直在居民区上空飞行。


Re:
Bullshit. USAF's major depot for F-15's is at Robins AFB in GA. The final phase of the functional test flight (FCF) is a supersonic run...flight path is almost directly over Warner Robins; on a good contrail day, it's almost directly over my house.

废话。美国空军的F-15战斗机的主要仓库就在佐治亚州的罗宾斯空军基地。功能性试飞(FCF)的最后阶段就是超音速飞行……它的飞行路线几乎正对华纳罗宾斯,在能见到超音速飞机尾迹的日子里,它几乎就在我家房子的正上方。

Re:
How loud a supersonic boom is it? As I mentioned the last time I got to hear one was on that intercept mission.

超音速爆炸的声音有多大?就像我上次提到的,我是在某次拦截任务中听到过一次。

Re:
It's fairly loud; I've heard them while in a secure comm facility on the base. It rattles windows; some folks in the older houses have had their widows crack and even blow out. Also, it seems that on days with lower atmospheric pressure, it will set off car alarms.

很大声!
我是在基地的安全通讯设施里听到的。
摇晃的窗户,有些住在老房子里的人,他们的房子甚至倒了。此外,在大气压力较低的日子,战斗机的音爆似乎还会触发汽车警报。




Re:
There aren't many overland routes between New York and London, or Los Angeles and Sydney.What part of what I wrote did you find difficult to grasp? Concorde debuted with multiple overland routes, but they all shut down due to noise. That markedly limited the routes it could serve.And you might have notice the complete lack of Los Angeles to Sydney flights... Lack of range limited Concorde to the North Atlantic, or to overwater flights (primarily France to her South American possessions) with convenient

纽约和伦敦之间,洛杉矶和悉尼之间并没有多少陆路路线。我写的哪一部分你觉得难以理解?
Concorde飞机首次亮相时有多条陆路路线,但都因为噪音而被关闭了。这明显限制了它的服务路线,你可能已经注意到了完全没有从洛杉矶到悉尼的航班……没有航程有限的Concorde飞机飞往北大西洋,也没有方便的水上飞机(主要是法国飞往其南美属地)

Re:
These guys claim to cut travel time for Australia-US from 15 to 9 hours [boomsupersonic.com]. That is something that could siphon away a good portion of the first class traffic.

这些人声称要把澳美之间的旅行时间从15个小时缩短到9个小时,这可能会吸走一部分头等舱的客流。

Re:
I think that would run into the same issue. It's faster, but not fast enough. If it were 3 hours, or even 5, sure. But 9 is still the whole day and at that point I'd rather sleep in a comfortable first class seat than be stuck in a cramped supersonic jet.

我想它会遇到同样的问题。它更快,但还不够快。如果是3个小时,甚至5个小时的航程,那当然可以吸走头等舱客人。但9个小时仍然是一整天,在那种情况下,我宁愿睡在舒适的头等舱座位上,也不愿被困在狭窄的超音速飞机里。

Re:
That’s like saying, “I didn’t make that other car crash when I ran it off the road; the tree they ran into is what made them crash”, which is to say, you’ve missed the cause and effect. Noise complaints were exactly what forced Concorde to shut down their profitable overland routes and stick to stuff like their transatlantic flights, which proved to be unsustainable.

这就好比说,“那辆车不是我撞出马路的,他们撞到的那棵树才是导致他们撞出马路的原因”,也就是说,你忽略了因果关系。
噪音投诉正是迫使 Concorde飞机关闭其盈利的陆上航线,并坚持他们的跨大西洋航班的原因,这被证明是不可持续(盈利)的项目。

Do we really need supersonic flights ? (Score:5, Insightful)
by Alain Williams ( 2972 ) on Saturday December 26, 2020 @03:52PM (#60867816) Homepage
The fuel per passenger mile is 3-4 times that for a subsonic aircraft -- do we want the environmental cost (CO2/energy) just so that a few people can get somewhere a bit more quickly ? I know that today's aircraft are more fuel efficient than in the Concorde era - but supersonic will always need more energy.

每名乘客每英里的燃料费用是亚音速飞机的3-4倍,我们还要考虑环境成本(二氧化碳/能源),所以多花这么多钱,只是为了让一些人能更快到达某个地方吗?
我知道现在的飞机比 Concorde飞机时代的飞机更省油,但超音速飞机永远都需要更多的能源。



640 mph should be enough for all (Score:2)
Post pandemic world might put very heavy toll on such fast planes. They might also place restriction on the speed of movement of goods and people. Cheap transportation is an essential requirement for the domination of Chinese in manufacturing. Governments have started seeing Chinese goods as a national security threat. The pandemic will give them a handy reason to increase the cost of transportation making Chinese products non competitive without running into WTO rules. Difficult to see a future where sup

大流行后的世界可能会让如此快速的飞机付出非常沉重的代价。他们还可能限制货物和人员的流动速度。廉价的运输是中国在制造业占据主导地位的必要条件。各国政府已开始将中国商品视为国家安全威胁。
疫情将给他们提供一个最方便的理由,在不违反世贸组织规则的情况下,提高运输成本,使中国产品失去竞争力。对这个超音速项目,我很难看到有什么前途……

Re:
This started speculative and turned into wildly speculative very fast.

这个项目会开启投机行为,很快就变成了广泛的投机行为。

Re:
Not really a problem. If you live in Kansas, you already live with thunderstorms. High altitude sonic booms are minor by comparison.

音爆不是什么问题。如果你住在堪萨斯州,你已经生活在雷雨之中了。相比之下,高空音爆的影响更小。

No Sense of Priorities (Score:3)
by BrendaEM ( 871664 ) on Sunday December 27, 2020 @01:17PM (#60869900) Homepage
Public transportation failed during Covid, and they want to waste money on something that only a few rich people will use? I have another idea, spend the money and effort to putting personal vehicle chargers in cites for ebikes, scooters, and the like.

新冠肺炎期间公共交通瘫痪,他们想把钱浪费在只有少数富人才会使用的东西上?
我还有另一个主意,花点钱和精力在城市里为电动自行车、小型摩托车和类似的东西安装个人汽车充电器。

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