2021-01-12 ▄︻┻═┳一 30162

A Chinese submarine stalked a U.S. aircraft carrier battle group in the Pacific last month and surfaced within firing range of its torpedoes and missiles before being detected


The sub, a Type 039 Song-class diesel-electric boat, is one of the Chinese navy’s newer models, designed and built in China. China also operates Russian-built Kilo-class diesel subs.


Any sort of war in the Pacific region, whether an attack on North Korea or a defense of Taiwan or Japan, will rely very heavily upon our carrier air power. If the threat of submarine attack keeps our carriers from working where we want them to be working, we will have ceded initiative to the enemy.


Assuming this report in the Washington Times is accurate, a very loud wake-up call has just been sounded. Carrier groups operate with a nuclear attack sub, and the fact that this diesel snuck in under our noses is telling.



The new saying will be ‘there are satellites and there are targets.’ All this stuff is obsolete – we just don’t realize it yet.


This is not troubling This is not troubling. Cat and mouse games with subs are nothing new. The fact that it surfaced within firing range before being detected is…..that thing you told us to tell you it wasn’t. I’m not convinced that diesels are the way to go for the US navy…they are very quiet until they have to recharge…then they are noisy and vulnerable as they must stay at snorting depth. Still the utillity and deadlieness of electricboats in costal waters makes the rundown of our ASW forces particularly inexcuseable.


James you know I heard the saying about subs and targets and it doesn’t always hold water. I was on the Hawk in 84 during a team spirit exorcise and we had so many Red SSN’s in the area that we called all of our boats(US Sub’s) on over to our side and simulated sinking all of them may times over. got so good at hiding the carrier that one surfaced in front of us and we t-bond it, got the same reaction back then as well. In 86 we evaded 2 fast attacks pulling out of San Diego. Mike: the ASW do pretty well using sonar buoy’s and only drop there dipping sonar to lock on there target.


Mike: I’ve always had the impression that helos were more than a ‘minor nuisance’, but your point that newer weapons extend the range at which subs can effectively attack is a good one. Nicholas: I’m not arguing with you, but everyone also knew in 1912-1913 that a European war would never happen because everyone’s economies were getting so intertwined. James: Mines are mentioned at http://murdoconline.net/archives/004189.html Bram: I agree that control of the high ground in space will be vital in the next Major War. But ships and sea lanes will be of absolute import for a long, long time, and it will usually take ships and/or subs to control them. Sort of like how you still need boots on the ground in an age of air-dropped precision weaponry. Brickmuppet: It’s not helping. Say it some more…

Mike:我一直认为直升机不仅仅是一个“小麻烦”,但你认为新型武器能扩大潜艇的有效攻击范围,这是一个很好的观点。Nicholas:我不是在和你争论,但在1912-1913年,每个人都觉得欧洲的战争永远不会发生,因为每个国家的经济都变得如此相互紧密。James:这里提到了水雷:http://murdoconline.net/archives/004189.html Bram:我同意对太空高地的控制在下一场大战中将是至关重要的。但在很长一段时间内,船只和海上航道还将是绝对重要的,我们通常需要军舰/或潜艇来控制航道。就像在一个可以空投精确武器的时代,你仍然需要靴子走路。

The thing that’s scarce in this world is not countries capable of manufacturing goods, it’s the pot-bellied, fat asses who consume the manufactured goods. That’s why the Chinese need us so badly. What would they do with all their manufacturing capability without us? Improve their own standard of living? I think this incident calls for us to build even bigger and more expensive aircraft carriers. Clearly they are the most cost effective way to fight a war, if you don’t mind losing a few to a cheap WW2 technology subs every now and then. I’ll bet Taiwan is real happy to have us as allies right now.


Mike Burleson
James said: ‘The only real defense against a sub is another sub.’ This hardly does justice to the destroyers and aricraft which whipped the sub threat in 2 World Wars.


This hardly does justice to the destroyers and aricraft which whipped the sub threat in 2 World Wars.’ Not my intention, the actions of that generations sub fighters are beyond comparison. However, subs of today are far more capable then their WWI & WWII ancestors.