日本汉字故事 -- 为什么日语看起来像一条被打了很多次补丁的裤子? 以至于“裤子”不再存在,只剩下一堆补丁?
2023-03-30 瓢虫的守护 13745
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评论翻译
Pastel Lla-ri
As a native-Japanese speaker I do recommend to learn the meanings and origins of kanjis. I see a lot of comments that are saying that you should just memorize it and not go too deep in it. In elementary school they teach us the meanings and the origins of each kanji we learn (we don’t go too deep though). If you are only going to learn how to order food or greet then you don’t need to, but if you really want speak the language, please understand that only memorizing words won’t help you much. You have to know why you use the phrase or you could use it incorrectly. It is tough to learn Japanese.
The Japanese language is like history. According to some research Japanese is considered one of the most hard languages to learn for an English speaker. Of course it depends on people. And I think it is not as hard as the video says but this is an analysis of the language and not a lesson to learn it.

作为一个母语为日语的人,我建议学习汉字的含义和起源。
我看到很多评论说,你应该只是记住它,而不用太深入地了解它。
在小学里,老师教我们学习每个汉字的含义和起源(不过我们不会太深入)。
如果你只是要学习如何点菜或打招呼,那么你不需要这样做。
但如果你真的想说这门语言,请明白,只背单词对你没有什么帮助。
你必须知道你为什么要使用这句话,否则你可能会使用错误。
学习日语很困难。日语就像历史一样。
根据一些研究,日语被认为是讲英语的人最难学的语言之一。当然,这也取决于人。
我认为学习日语并不像视频中说的那样难,这个视频只是对语言的分析,而非学习日语的课程。

バンジョベンジ
If you don't like finding the meanings in kanji, you might as well not learn Japanese at all.

如果你不喜欢在汉字中寻找意义,你还不如根本不学日语。

Raandom Player
What if I'm just listening? Shouldn't matter right? Also lucky me to not be English.

如果我要求不高,只是想听懂日语呢?应该没关系吧?
还有,可能我比较幸运,我的母语不是英语。

Hillery Chan
Since I know Chinese it makes it so much easier to learn kanji

由于我懂中文,所以学习日本汉字非常容易。

awakeningspirit20
Of course it is, Japan is on the opposite side of the world and of a supercontinent from England! Both have similar historical backgrounds of piecing together multiple languages and influences though. The difference is England got conquered by multiple people and a Creole language that stretches across most European language groups was created, while Japan was impenetrable and got to pick and choose what it liked from its neighbors. Honestly, learning the roots of English in the same way you learned Kanji is a historical process that truly helps you understand not just your language, but those around you as well. Like I can now tell which English words or particles of words are Romance vs. Germanic in origin, or even Greek. Japanese is probably even more rich, because it's not just root WORDS it's root PICTOGRAMS.

当然是,日本在世界的另一边,和英国一样旁边有一个超大陆!
两者都有相似的历史背景,且将多种语言和影响拼凑在一起。
不同的是,英国被去多人征服过,所以创造出了一种横跨大多数欧洲语言群体的克里奥语(混合语),
而由于没有外族入侵过日本诸岛,所以日本可以从邻国那里挑选自己喜欢的语言。
说实话,像学习汉字一样学习英语的词根是一个历史性的过程,它不仅能真正帮助你理解自己的语言,还能帮助你理解你周围地区的语言。
就像我现在可以分辨出英语单词,亦或其他语言的单词中的词根。
我可以看出它是起源于罗曼语、日耳曼语,甚至是希腊语。
日语可能更丰富,因为它不仅仅是基于读音,它还基于象形文字。

Terra77
how about mandarin? isn't that language one of the hardest as well?

那普通话呢?那种语言不也是最难的吗?

Fight Guy
As an asian, learning to speak japanese is not that hard. Asians go to japan to work and japanese say that they can adapt pretty fast and able to speak fluent japanese in just 3 months or so.. But well, writing it is a completely different story.

作为一个亚洲人,学习说日语并不难。
亚洲人去日本工作,日本人说他们适应得很快,3个月左右就能说一口流利的日语。
但是,写它是一个完全不同的故事。

tt 321
@Terra77 No. Chinese is easy to learn as it is an analytic language with no inflections, singular/plural, gender, and tense. Just straightforward subject-verb-obxt sentence order. So it is easy to learn to speak. However the writing/reading might need more time to get used to.

不,汉语很容易学,因为它是一种分析性语言,没有屈折变化、单复数、性别和时态。
汉语有简单明了的主谓宾句序,所以很容易学会说话。
然而,阅读和书写可能需要更多的时间来适应。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


Kai Minato
where could i find the story behind each kanji ? is there a website or something ?

在哪里可以找到每个汉字背后的故事?
有网站什么的吗?

Marcio uliana Marcio
I love history!But...it looks that this language loves complicate everything.I'll try pick your recommendation.

我爱历史!但是......
看起来日语喜欢把一切都复杂化。
我会尝试选择你的建议。

tama tama
I'm a native Japanese and I tutored many students from around the world when I was in Canadian and the US. Speaking from my experience, I really think Japanese is one of the easiest to become semi-fluent but the hardest to master. It doesn't matter unless you are planning to become a scholar or something, so please don't be scared! Speaking is easy especially for Koreans, South East Asians, Italians, and Spanish. Even if you are English, it'd take only a couple years to become somewhat fluent if you are actually willing to learn.

我是一个土生土长的日本人,当我在加拿大和美国的时候,我辅导了很多来自世界各地的学生。
从我的经验来说,我真的认为,日语是最容易说得半流利的语言,但也是最难掌握的语言之一。
没关系,除非你打算成为一个学者或什么的,所以请不要害怕!
日语说起来很容易,尤其是韩国人,东南亚人,意大利人和西班牙人。
即使你的母语是英语,如果你真的愿意学习的话,也只需要几年的时间就可以变得比较流利。

ニャンシーEGG
I'm Japanese.
In real life, the Japanese language is not so difficult, but if I want to know more about it, I need a huge amount of memory.
Japanese is difficult even for Japanese people.

我是日本人。
在真实的生活中,日语并不难,但如果我想了解更多,我需要大量的记忆。
日语对日本人来说也很难。

awakeningspirit20
How do people in your society even become fully-literate, seriously? I'm sure the language itself is not that bad, via 'Romanji,' but with the three alphabet systems (especially if Kanji are as bad as he says) it would become way over-complicated. It's hard enough in Mandarin where there is order to it, but he makes it sounds like any hyper-complex order system from Chinese gets scrambled in Japanese! I'd love to learn Japanese because I have a Japanese friend, but woah... too tough!

说真的,在你们的社会里,人们是如何完全识字的呢?
我相信由于 "罗马字母"的存在,学习语言本身没有那么糟糕,
但如果有三个字母系统(特别是如果汉字像他说的那样令人头疼),就会变得过于复杂。
普通话已经够难的了,但是它有既定的规则。
而这个视屏让人觉得,任何来源于中文的东西,一旦进入日语,与之相关的规则都会被打乱,变得一团糟。
我很想学日语,因为我有一个日本朋友,但是...... 太难了!
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


ひろゆき二十一
@awakeningspirit20 As some people have already said, don't overthink too much about it. Just like how babies learned, constantly exposing yourself to sentences (or conversation) makes you able to understand the context of different character uses.

正如一些人已经说过的,不要想太多。
就像婴儿学习一样,不断地让自己接触句子或对话,让你能够理解不同字符的上下文使用环境。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


Edward Wood
One more point needs to be made: when Japanese schoolchildren are taught to read and write, they already know how to speak; so it's just a question of matching up the words with the characters. All the various readings come in words and combinations that the Japanese child already knows.
The foreign student comes in completely cold: he knows neither the words nor the characters (nor the combinations). Much more complicated.

还有一点需要说明:
当日本学童被教导阅读和写作时,他们已经知道如何说话;
因此,这只是一个将单词与字符匹配的问题。
所有的各种读法都是日本孩子已经知道的单词和组合。
而外国学生则是完全陌生的:
他既不知道这些单词,也不知道这些汉字(或这些汉字的组合)。情况要复杂得多。

猫ちゃん
As a Japanese student, if you completely master this writing system, you can read the sentence very fast. Because kanji represents the meanings and Hiragana and Katakana represent only the sound. So it is able to understand rapidly than other languages. However, it uses a lot of energy.

作为一个日本学生,如果你完全掌握了这种书写系统,你可以非常快地阅读句子。
因为汉字代表意义,而平假名和片假名只代表声音。
因此,它比其他语言更容易理解。
然而,学习它需要更多的努力。

Yorkshire Tea Guardian
It isn't true: study showed that Chinese people (even more succinct than Japanese) read between 3 and 4 characters per second on average
This is about the same speed they'd have when reading in English
Although now the limit is only the brain and not the eyes

这不是真的:研究表明,中国人(他们的语言甚至比日本人更简洁)平均每秒阅读3到4个字符。
这和他们用英语阅读的速度差不多。
虽然现在制约阅读速度极限是大脑而非眼睛。

Troodon
After attempting to learn Japanese and Chinese, I was surprised at how easy it was to learn Korean. Or at least I learned to read it, which in large parts of South Korea was enough to read most signs, since most were actually borrowed English words written in Korean. I had a hard time telling taxi drivers where to go, but I was actually able to read the signs on buses and trains to figure out which ones took me nearest to where I was trying to get to.

在尝试学习日语和汉语之后,我惊讶于学习韩语是多么容易。
或者可以这么说,至少我学会了阅读它。
在韩国的大部分地区,我现在的水平足以阅读大多数标志,因为大多数实际上是借用韩语写的英语单词。
我很难告诉出租车司机该去哪里,但实际上我能读懂公共汽车和火车上的标志,并找出坐哪辆车其下车的站点离我要去的地方最近。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


Jerry2011b
Japanese without Kanji is like Chinese pin yin without space, it will still be readable but definitely HELL lol

没有汉字的日语就像没有空格的汉语拼音一样,它仍然可读,但绝对是地狱,哈哈。

Mr マックラ
In this generation it is much easier to learn Japanese, and most languages, than ever before. Namely, you can just access a Japanese Romanji from your smartphone, iPad or just access it from your computer. After you know the basic sounds and pronunciation in Japanese, you can put common sounds together to discovery the Kanji they make. Just type what you would say in Japanese and convert to Kanji, that is very helpful in the beginning

在这一代,学习日语和学习大多数其他语言一样,要比以前容易得多。
也就是说,你可以直接从你的智能手机、iPad 或直接从你的电脑上输入日语罗马字母。
在你知道日语的基本音和发音后,你可以把常见的声音放在一起,然后你就能发现由它们所组成的汉字。
你只需输入日语中所说的内容,就可以转换为汉字,这在刚开始学习日语时非常有帮助。

Yosaf Mehmet
To me as a native chinese who is learning japanese, kanji is both the easiest and hardest part. For we know what those kanji mean from our mother language but have no idea which japanese pronunciation should be used.

对我这个学日语的中国人来说,汉字是最简单也是最难的部分。
因为由于我们的母语是汉语,我们知道那些日本汉字的意思,但我们不知道应该用哪种方式发音。

Jorge de los Reyes
The worst thing is that when you get used to kanji, you start sneering at katakana and English loanwords.

最糟糕的是,当你习惯了汉字,你开始嘲笑片假名和英语外来词。

seanbcusack
i love kanji. sure, they're hard, but once you make a mental mnemonic for a character and it sinks in, you can guess the meanings of new words you read 90% of the time, even if you don't know the pronunciation.

我喜欢汉字。当然,它们很难。
但是一旦你使用某种方法在脑海里记住了它,并且吸收了它的含义。
即使你遇到一个新单词,只要这个单词里包含了你学过的汉字 ,你有 90% 的可能性会猜出这个新单词的含义,即使你不知道发音。

Bryan Cheong
I actually furiously debated once with a Japanese calligrapher because he insisted that my stroke order for a word I wrote (which is eminently important in calligraphy) was wrong, while I KNEW I was right. We both got slightly insulted.

我曾经和一位日本书法家激烈地争论过,因为他坚持说我写的一个字的笔顺是错误的(这在书法中非常重要).
而我知道我是对的。
我们互相都受到了对方轻微的侮辱。

Patrick Dark
Stroke order becomes mostly predictable once you've learned enough characters (where the complex characters mostly just combine simple characters).

一旦你学会了足够多的字符,笔画顺序就变得可以预测了(复杂的字符大多只是简单字符的组合)。

Yumeka Aizawa

I know it’s hard to learn Japanese, but once you get it, you’ll be able to read magnificent expressions which I guess unique to Japanese. There is a specific word for “the sunlight that filters through the leaves of trees”. Japanese has lots of words that makes you picture deep, colorful image of meanings. 幽玄、玉響、黄昏 are examples of words that contains deep, meaningful, and majestic scenery behind.

Good luck to all Japanese learner! Ganbare

我知道学日语很难,但是一旦你学会了,你就能读懂那些,我想是日本人才独有的华丽的表达。
有一个专门的词来形容“透过树叶的阳光”。
日语有很多词能让你想象出深刻的、丰富多彩的意义和形象。
“幽玄、玉響、黄昏”
上诉词就是极好的例子。
其汉字背后蕴含着深刻、有意义,且雄伟的景色。
祝愿所有的日语学习者好运!加油!

Foxer Boxer
The trick is to remember that Kanji, unlike in Chinese, aren't always pronounced the same way.

诀窍是,你需要要记住,日本汉字,不像中文,并不总是以同样的方式发音。

Hiyori
that's why I love japanese and chinese languages. If I could I'd study them my whole life

所以我喜欢日语和汉语。如果可以的话,我愿意一辈子研究它们。

Commenter
Kanji is necessary to japanese reading, because have many similar words with diferent meanings and have many words with complex meanings, but is very beautiful and turns japanese language unique

汉字是阅读日语所必须的,因为日语中有许同音异意词,也有许多含义非常复杂的词。
但汉字非常漂亮,使得日本语言变得非常独特。

Luo Watson
Most of these characters still kept the original meaning. That makes the Japan a popular destination for the Chinese to travel, as you could basically understand the written messages.

这些汉字大多保留了原来的意思。
这使得日本成为中国人旅行的热门目的地,因为你基本上可以理解汉字的信息。

Ruthieルシ ·
I struggle with kanji all the time but.... trying to read a Japanese sentence without kanji is a pain. so I still love kanji

我一直在和汉字斗争,但是......
试着读一个没有汉字的日语句子是一件痛苦的事。
所以我还是喜欢汉字。

Wendigo
After I learned both hiragana and katakana characters, I started learning kanji and how three of them incorporated to form a sentence, I immediately realized what I have gotten myself into and I was like "oh boy do I have a long long way ahead of me".

在我学会了平假名和片假名字符后,我开始学习汉字,以及如何将上述三者合并成一个句子。
我立即意识到我掉进了一个大坑,我就像:
“哦,男孩,我还有很长的路要走。”

RunningRiot
Yup, that about sums it up. Been learning Japanese for almost 5 years now. Still massively struggling with kanji, I know about 1500? Maybe? Still got about another 500 just to be able to walk myself around Japan without looking like a chicken with it's head cut off. But let me put you out some ease, actual spoken conversations are so much easier. Maybe it's just me but spoken Japanese is easier than spoken Spanish, and I'm native English.

是的,差不多就是这样。
我学习日语已经快5年了,还在为汉字而挣扎。
我知道大约1500个汉字?大概吧?
我还需要学习500个,只是为了能在日本到处走走,而不像一只被砍掉头的鸡。
但让我还是会给你点好消息,让你松口气。
其实,用日语对话实际上要容易得多。
也许只是我,但学会日语口语,要比学会西班牙语口语容易的多,我的母语是英语。

peshmerge44
i studied japonology for 2 semesters. the pronounciation and logic of japanese is very easy in my opinion. no joke i think japanese as a language is one of the most logical. it has clear rules. what kills people is kanji because you have to be very dedicated to learn it

学了两个学期的日本学。日语的发音和逻辑在我看来很简单。
不开玩笑,我认为日语是最符合逻辑的语言之一,它有明确的规则。
但是日本汉字是致命的,因为你必须非常专注地去学习它。

Chi
Japanese is such an easy language to speak and yet the writing system goes completely over my head besides hiragana and katakana

日语是一种很容易说的语言,但是日语的书写系统......
平假名和片假名还好点,汉字完成超出了我的理解范围。

ye henry
there are some guys around me who intended to be interested in Chinese characters in Japanese and started to study Japanese. but they don't know those characters come from Chinese. after a while of study. they started to study Chinese..

我身边有一些人,他们对日语中的汉字感兴趣,开始学习日语。
但他们不知道这些字来自中文。
经过一段时间的学习。他们又开始学习汉语。

Quintin Lohman
This is why Koreans made their own writing system

这就是为什么韩国人创造了自己的书写系统。

Alexandre Wozikowski
People in Korea and Vietnam mainly used Chinese characters before WWII. The history of using Chinese characters in Korea and Vietnam is more than 1000 years, Korea and Vietnam gave up Chinese characters after WWII because of the fall of China. Korean surnames/names are similar to Chinese surnames/names. When Koreans gave up Kanji, they cannot know the meaning of their names. But Japanese still use Kanji in their names, so all characters of Japanese names are meaningful like Chinese names.

韩国和越南在二战前主要使用汉字。
韩国和越南使用汉字已有1000多年的历史,二战后由于中国的衰落,韩国和越南放弃了汉字。
韩国人的姓/名与中国人的姓/名相似。
当韩国人放弃汉字时,他们无法知道自己名字的含义。
但是日本人仍然在他们的名字中使用汉字,所以日本名字的所有字符都像中国名字一样有意义。

Henrique Oliveira
Once I studied Japanese , for 6 months. I gave up when I realized it would be IMPOSSIBLE to master the language. This mainly due to the kanji writing system.

曾经我学了六个月的日语。
当我意识到掌握这门语言对我来说是完不成的任务时,我放弃了。
这主要是由于汉字书写系统。

danqan maaku
God Almighty, I'm glad I didn't see this before I started learning kanji (43 years ago).
I just learned them and took them as they came. End of story. Why tell beginners every single teeny tiny detail about the Japanese kanji system at the beginning? Kind of like telling a six-year old all about calculus when he is learning how to add single-digit numbers, There's an order to learning, and videos like this just make things more confusing than they need to be. But you do sound like you're having fun...

万能的上帝,我很高兴我在开始学习汉字之前(43年前)没有看到这个视频。
我只学习了它们,然后学会了它们,故事结束。
为什么一开始就告诉初学者关于日本汉字系统的每一个微小的细节?
这有点像一个六岁的孩子,当他正在学习如何数数时,你跟他讲什么是微积分?
学习是有顺序的,像这样的视频只会让事情变得更加混乱。
但你做这个视频的时候,看起来很开心......

Darker Hippo
I think this video, among his other ones, are for linguistics enthusiasts, not for language learners.

他还有很多其他视频,我认为这段视频是为语言学爱好者准备的,而不是为语言学习者准备的。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


Rocky Yap
The more I see the more confused I get. Thanks to NativLang. Didn't know things are so complicated.

我看得越多就越糊涂。
感谢 up 主,没想到事情这么复杂。

matchesburn
Why is the Japanese language starting to sound to me like a pair of pants that has been patched so many times that the "pants" no longer exist and merely a collection of patches in the form of pants remains?

为什么日语看起来像一条被打了很多次补丁的裤子?
以至于“裤子”不再存在,只剩下一堆补丁?

ann VIK
That is the best way to discribe...

这是对日语最形象的描述方式…...

Raos Caos
Love this... It's like a horror movie... but better!

喜欢这个...... 就像恐怖片...... 但更好!

Melaine Meyer
I very easily learned the kana parts of Japanese but as soon as I got to kanji I just wanted to crawl into a hole and die because it's far too complicated

我很容易就学会了日语的假名部分。
但当我一学汉字,我还不如爬进一个洞里去等死,因为它太复杂了。

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