国外网友讨论:我们距离全球电动汽车强制推广的最后期限还有5年至10年的时间。现在是否是趁低吸纳锂股的好时机?
2024-01-22 平平躺平 6022
正文翻译


原文:

There’s no denying that we’re not too far away from a policy driven EV adoption wave of massive proportions. All the top global car markets are very much aligned on this:
China - Biggest car market: The Chinese government has implemented a quota system to limit the number of gasoline-powered cars sold in the country.
US - Second biggest car market: This rollout will likely happen state by state (California’s EV mandate is leading the pack). On a federal level, Biden's EPA wants to enact a mandate that will push for two-thirds of all new vehicles to be electric by 2032.
EU - Third biggest car market: The EU has the strictest EV adoption goals with all new cars and vans registered set to be zero emission by 2035.
Japan, Indian, Canada, UK, and 80 more countries are also implementing aggressive EV adoption mandates all set on meeting a 2030 - 2035 deadline.
Like many things macro, the global adoption curve will be initially incremental with a very sharp turn appearing outta nowhere around the halfway point. I’m betting that it will take place around 2027 - 2030. A few things that strengthen this hypothesis:
1. Global relations and supply chain deterioration as a result of regional conflict, brics, etc.
2. Countries are finally investing on sovereign energy assets to mitigate 3rd party risk (Russia, Saudi, etc).
3.Institutional, public and private capital incentives (grants for charging infrastructure, tax perks, etc).
Does that mean that I’m going Yolo on EV automakers? No, not for a while at least - they have a tough hill to climb (R&D costs, retail saturation, infra costs, the list goes on).
I prefer to make calculated plays with ironclad lithium exploration, drilling and refining stocks.The lithium industry is going through an aggressive m&a phase because they know that the majority of all deposits just aren’t viable exploration plays (geographical conundrums, costs, environmental compliance…just too much red tape).
In regards to alternatives like nuclear, thorium, sodium ion, hydrogen are either stuck in bureaucratic quagmires or their just liquidity trap hyped shenanigans.
Anyhow, I’m stacking up on lithium stocks. Do you have any cool lithium plays on your watchlist or portfolio?

无可否认的是,我们距离由政策驱动的大规模电动汽车普及浪潮并不遥远。全球各大汽车市场在此方面已高度一致:
中国——全球最大汽车市场:中国政府已实施配额制度,限制国内汽油车的销售数量。
美国——第二大汽车市场:这一推广可能会逐州进行(加州的电动汽车强制令处于领先地位)。在联邦层面,拜登领导下的环保署希望实施一项强制令,推动到2032年时,新车辆中三分之二为电动汽车。
欧盟——第三大汽车市场:欧盟设定了最严格的电动汽车发展目标,要求到2035年所有新注册的轿车和厢式货车都必须实现零排放。
日本、印度、加拿大、英国以及另外80多个国家也在积极推行电动汽车强制令,以期在2030年至2035年之间达成目标。
如同许多宏观趋势一样,全球电动汽车的普及曲线最初将呈现渐进式增长,在大约中期时会突然出现一个急剧的增长转折点。我预计这个转折点将在2027年至2030年间到来。以下几点支持这一假设:
1.地区冲突、金砖国家等因素导致的全球关系和供应链恶化。
2.各国开始投资主权能源资产以降低第三方风险(如俄罗斯、沙特阿拉伯等国)。
3.来自机构、公共和私人资本的激励措施,包括充电基础设施建设补贴、税收优惠等。
这是否意味着我要对电动汽车制造商进行冲动的投资呢?不,至少在短期内不会——它们还有诸多难关需要克服,比如研发投入成本高、零售市场饱和度、基础设施投入等问题。
我更倾向于对那些有坚实基础的锂矿勘探、钻探和提炼股票进行策略性投资。当前,锂行业正经历一个激烈的并购阶段,因为行业内人士都清楚,大多数锂资源储量由于地理难题、成本问题、环保合规等各种复杂因素(太多的繁文缛节),并不具备实际可行的开采价值。
至于替代方案,如核能、钍能、钠离子电池、氢能源等要么困于官僚主义泥潭,要么仅仅是流动性陷阱炒作。
总之,我正在积极投资锂资源相关的股票。您是否有关注或投资组合中有一些值得关注的锂相关优质股呢?

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评论翻译
以下为评论:

I feel like deadlines will get pushed back. What eco goals have we ever met on time? Every single one we have disastrously missed by a long shot.
The ozone layer being our only global triumph. Only because it was an easy fix.

我觉得这些最后期限会被不断推迟。我们有哪项环保目标是按时完成的呢?迄今为止,每项环保目标我们都严重滞后且未能达成。
臭氧层保护算是我们唯一的全球性胜利,但这仅仅是因为它相对容易解决。

I feel like the op is too optimistic. I'm sorry but I think ev still has a lot of big issues that needs to be worked out

我觉得发帖人过于乐观了。很抱歉,我认为电动汽车领域还存在许多重大问题有待解决。

Yeah its a shit system hybrid mandate would make sense but EV fat fuckin chance im not gunna buy one untill I can drive 12 to 20 hours straight with one or they add solar.

是啊,现在的系统确实一团糟。混合动力汽车的推广要求或许更有意义,但我才不会买电动汽车,除非我能连续驾驶12到20个小时不用充电,或者它们能增加太阳能充电功能。

We're a lot closer than you think, in regards to renewables anyways.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/11/worlds-renewable-energy-capacity-grew-at-record-pace-in-2023

我们在可再生能源方面取得的进展比你想象的要快得多。
[参考链接]:https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/11/worlds-renewable-energy-capacity-grew-at-record-pace-in-2023

Yes. Even if they perfect a solid state battery it still needs lithium. So win win

是的。即使他们完善了固态电池技术,仍然需要锂元素。所以这是个双赢的局面。

There are multiple MASSIVE lithium battery factories being built in TN, KY and AL. Once they’re completed and operational they gonna be increasing lithium demand big time.
Then there’s China’s EV boom that’s accelerating at such a pace it’s got other legacy auto makers getting nervous.

在美国田纳西州、肯塔基州和阿拉巴马州,有多座特大型锂离子电池工厂正在建设中。一旦这些工厂建成并投入运营,将大幅增加锂的需求量。
与此同时,中国的电动汽车市场正以前所未有的速度蓬勃发展,这一迅猛势头让其他传统汽车制造商感到紧张不安。

Honda has also been talking about a $48 billion battery + assembly complex in Ontario

本田公司也在讨论在安大略省投资建设一个价值480亿美元的电池及组装综合设施。

EV won’t be massively implemented until they fix the battery and charge issues.

电动汽车的大规模推广将不得不等待电池和充电问题得到解决后才能实现。

10 years at the earliest if ever.

至少要10年,或者更久。

Ford is struggling to sell their EVs and shifting more focus back to their gasoline vehicles
I’m not 100% bullish on EV yet. Government is peddling it too much still.

福特在电动汽车销售上遭遇困难,正将更多精力重新转向汽油车业务。
我目前尚未完全看好电动汽车。政府仍在大力推动其发展。

Yeah. Hydrogen. Toyota.

对,氢能源也是值得关注的领域。丰田汽车公司在这一方面有所布局和研发。

Just look at EVs during this week in US when it was hella cold lol

就看看这周美国极寒天气时电动汽车的表现,哈哈。

Is it ok to make hybrid instead? Or does it have to be EV?

制造混合动力汽车可以吗?还是必须得是纯电动汽车?

The goal is to eliminate fossil fuel use for pasenger transportation. Hybrids burn fossil fuels.

目标是消除客运交通对化石燃料的使用。而混合动力汽车仍在燃烧化石燃料。

Answer: no, because Lithium is not the final step. Sodium ion batteries are on the horizon and the materials are way more common.

答案:不,因为锂并非最终解决方案。钠离子电池正在研发中,并且其使用的材料更为常见。

This won’t happen.
The infrastructure needed to charge these doesn’t exist. It can’t exist in the next 10 years.
This is all virtue signaling by governments.
We should hope it doesn’t, too, because refining the metals for batteries, chips and such and the power generation to charge then will be much, much dirtier.

这种情况不会发生。
电动汽车充电的基础设施还不完善,未来10年内也无法实现。
这些都是政府在进行道德表态。
我们也应该希望它不会发生,因为提炼用于电池、芯片等的金属材料以及为电动汽车充电所需的电力生产过程,将会带来更严重的污染。

It's been proven time and time again that EVs are much cleaner in their lifetime over ICE even when you consider the manufacturing and the EV running permanently off coal.
Why do people like you continue to spread misinformation about this? You are literally defending the spewing of emissions out of a tailpipe for the lifetime of a vehicle saying it's cleaner than a vehicle that doesn't once. Insanity

不断有证据证明,即使在考虑电动汽车制造过程和永久依赖煤炭电力的情况下,其整个生命周期中的环保程度仍远超内燃机汽车(ICE)。
为什么像您这样的人还在继续散播关于这一问题的错误信息呢?您实际上是在为车辆在其使用寿命期间持续排放尾气的行为辩护,并声称这比那些从不排放的车辆更环保。这种观点真是荒谬至极。

Because change is hard to wrap your head around if you’re conservative

因为对于保守的人来说,接受变革往往比较困难。

If we have all this extra electricity for EVs, why does CA have rolling blackouts?

如果我们有这么多额外的电力用于电动汽车,为什么加州还会出现轮流停电的现象呢?

CA hasn’t had rolling blackouts since 2020. They were close a while ago during a massive heat wave.
Alberta almost had rolling blackouts from the cold. And it’s a big oil and gas province

自2020年以来,加州就没有再发生过轮流停电的现象。之前在经历一次大规模热浪时,情况曾一度非常紧张。
而阿尔伯塔省由于严寒天气,几乎出现了轮流停电的情况,要知道该省是一个大型石油和天然气产区。

I’m not. You’re saying that.
I’m saying that EV en masse is a dirty pipe dream.
If anything, Hydrogen would be the way to go.

我并没有那么说,是您在表达那个观点。
我所说的是,大规模推广电动汽车是一个不切实际且污染严重的梦想。
如果非要选择一个替代方案,氢能源或许才是更好的出路。

Hydrogen is far far less efficient though

不过,氢能源的效率要低得多。

That’s an easier problem to solve. Mechanical technology and storage are orders of magnitude simpler to engineer.

相较于其他问题,这个问题更容易解决。机械技术和存储技术在工程设计上要简单得多。

Why have it not been done within the last 25 years?
EV's have gone from niche towards mainstream the last 10-15 years, and a miles ahead of hydrogen.
Where hydrogen might be a solution is for larger machines/truck.

为什么过去25年里氢能源技术没有得到广泛应用呢?
电动汽车在过去10-15年间已从边缘走向主流,并且在发展上远远领先于氢能源。
不过,氢能源可能更适合用作大型机械/卡车的解决方案。

原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


But we probably have enough of it

但是我们应该已经有足够的氢能源技术储备。

Trying to have a conversation with these people is useless. They’ll just generate electricity out of thin air. CA had rolling blackouts because they enjoy it.

尝试与这些人进行对话是徒劳的。他们似乎认为电力可以凭空产生。加州出现轮流停电是因为他们乐在其中。
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Your dramatizing how dirty it is to make the rare earth metals in EV batteries (which are recyclable BTW) to make it sound like it's not worth it.
Yes we should do hydrogen that requires an infrastructure more complicated than gas stations and EV chargers combined double the energy they require. That will happen! /s

您夸大了制造电动汽车电池中稀有金属所造成的污染程度,试图让人觉得这样做不值得(顺便说一句,这些金属是可回收的)。
确实,我们应该选择氢能源方案,尽管它需要建立一个比加油站和电动汽车充电站加起来还要复杂得多的基础设施,并且所需的能量是后者的两倍。这当然会发生! /s(注:这里的/s表示讽刺意味)

Strangely, it’s not nearly as hard to generate as EV wants you to think. Storage is the hardest problem.
Point me to one - just one - recycling operation reclaiming any significant amount of EV battery heavy metals without ALSO having to use a LOT of power to do it (and re-refine).

奇怪的是,生成氢气并没有电动汽车领域让你想象中的那么困难;储存才是最大的难题。
请给我指出哪怕一个实例——仅仅一个——在回收电动汽车电池中大量重金属时,能够在不同时消耗大量能源(以及进行再精炼)的情况下实现有效回收的作业。

Are you kidding me?
Hydrogen is made by electrolysis of water. It takes significant energy to break apart the H from O2. It is a dead end fuel

您在开玩笑吗?
氢气是通过电解水制取的。要将H从O2中分离出来需要消耗大量的能量,它是一种终端能源。

Hydrogen is not happening. Ever.
It is ludicrously expensive to manufacture on mass and store. Not to mention the power required to do it would be 3-4x that of just running electricity for EV.
Hydrogen was highlighted for years as a way of gaslighting environmental concerns

大规模生产和储存氢能源根本不可能实现。
其制造成本高昂得令人难以置信,更不用说所需的电力是直接为电动汽车供电所需电量的3到4倍了。
多年来,氢能源被过度宣传为解决环境问题的一种方式,实则是一种误导公众视线的做法。

Cleaner but you're just pulling your hat over your head. It doesn't really do much IMO as you still need to mine the raw materials for both the car and the battery and spares and then do the refining and manufacturing. Not to mention it just continues the loop of ecological destruction and financial waste that that comes with car dependency.

说电动汽车更环保其实就是在自欺欺人。在我看来,这样做其实没有多大意义,因为无论是汽车本身、电池还是配件的更换,都需要开采大量的原材料,随后进行提炼和制造。此外,它还延续了汽车依赖所带来的生态破坏和经济浪费的恶性循环。

I didn't know lithium mining and refining was so much more destructive than oil production /s you're a clown
Edit: mining and refining. EVs are a net positive. Also less moving parts so easier to maintain, and arguably better performance than ICE vehicles

我原来不知道锂矿开采和精炼竟然比石油生产更具破坏性(/s,您真是个搞笑的人)
编辑:我指的是锂矿开采和精炼。电动汽车整体上是积极有益的。此外,电动汽车拥有更少的运动部件,因此更容易维护,并且在性能上可以说优于内燃机车辆。

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I was told this place was liberal. Misinformation!!!!! Get a grip. We don’t have enough electricity for our needs now. Let’s add millions of cars to it

我听说这里是个开放包容的地方。但现在到处都是误导信息!理智一点吧。我们现在连现有的电力需求都无法满足,还想再给电网增加数百万辆汽车的用电量。
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


you are correct! State of California can’t produce enough electricity right now. Then add all those EV’s? Sure no problem.

您说得对!目前加州连现有的电力需求都无法满足,再增加那么多电动汽车?当然没问题。

The cars tend to charge overnight when the grid is underutilized.

电动汽车通常在电网利用率较低的夜间进行充电。

That's mostly false. A few random flex days in the dead of summer, where they request, not force people to save energy for a few hours, is very easy to accommodate. Every year our grid gets more resilient, not less.
"The California Independent System Operator did not experience any grid emergencies this summer requiring electricity outages.”
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/04/politics/fact-check-trump-california-blackouts-electricity-grid/index.html

这在很大程度上是错误的。夏季偶尔会有几段灵活用电时段,电力部门只是请求而非强制人们在几个小时内节约能源,这样的安排很容易适应。每年我们的电网都在变得更具韧性,而不是更脆弱。
“加州独立系统运营商在今年夏天并未经历任何导致电力中断的电网紧急情况。”
参考资料:https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/04/politics/fact-check-trump-california-blackouts-electricity-grid/index.html

原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


I remember they told people to stop charging their cars during a flex alx last year. Imagine telling people to stop driving because the power grid can't handle it.

我记得去年在电网供电紧张的灵活用电预警期间,他们曾要求人们暂停给电动汽车充电。想象一下如果因为电网无法承受负荷而让人们不要开车,那是怎样一番景象。

However, I will absolutely agree that our infrastructure is decades behind. We already have problems with transmission throughput. It's painfully obvious when the state of California has to ask people to NOT charge their EVs in order to stave off blackouts. Then you have lolTexas. We are not anywhere close to ready to take the aggregate energy of fossil fuel powered vehicles and shift that burden to the grid. Anyone who doubts this reality should go watch John Oliver episode about the national grid. You can't say he's some conservative puppet that parrots right wing agenda.

然而,我完全同意我们的基础设施落后了几十年。我们当前就已经面临输电容量的问题。当加州州政府不得不请求居民不要给电动汽车充电以避免停电时,这一点就显得尤为明显。
再看看得克萨斯州(lolTexas),我们距离将化石燃料车辆消耗的总能量转移至电网的程度还差得很远。任何对此现实有所怀疑的人,都应该去看看约翰·奥利弗关于国家电网的那一期节目。你不能说他是一个保守派傀儡,只会鹦鹉学舌地传达右翼议程。

Not to mention the vast majority of consumers don't want an EV as their main car due to expense and reliability issues, did you see the story about the guy who was charged 40k to repair his brand new $60k EV because he hit a pothole and the battery cover got dented?

更不用提,由于成本和可靠性问题,绝大多数消费者并不希望电动汽车成为他们的主力车型。你是否看到过那个新闻?一个人驾驶一辆全新的6万美元的电动汽车撞上了坑洼路面导致电池盖凹陷,结果维修费用高达4万美元。

It does exist.....
And if it 'doesn't exist' near you, well boy do I have a business opportunity for you sir

这确实存在……
如果在您身边“不存在”这样的设施,那么先生,这是一个绝佳的商业机会。

Here in Norway we have gone from basically none EV's to about 90% of new private cars being EV's in about 12 years.
I expect the change to be quicker in other markets as prices come down and the technology is already tested.

在挪威,我们大约在12年内实现了从几乎没有电动汽车到新售私家车中约90%为电动汽车的转变。我预计随着价格下降和技术已经得到验证,在其他市场这一变化将会更快发生。

EV have its cons and doesn’t seemed like it is not a good replacement for fossil fuel cars at moment.

电动汽车目前存在一些缺点,似乎还不是化石燃料汽车的理想替代品。

Won’t matter. Manufactures are leading the change, not mandates.
The manufacturers are actually pushing for the mandates.

这并不重要。推动变革的是制造商,而非政府的强制要求。
实际上,制造商正在积极推动这些强制规定出台。

Never mind adoption guideline. I smell China will be the leader in battery and dominate eV exports ultimately. The small Li companies will not prosper. Just watch Licy stock it will go under very quickly. Not ready for recycling.

别提什么使用指南了。我预见中国将在电池领域成为领导者,并最终主导电动汽车出口市场。小型锂资源公司不太可能繁荣发展。看看Licy这只股票,它很快就会崩盘,因为它们目前还没准备好进行电池回收利用。

That's why you buy ETFs like LIT

这就是为什么建议投资像LIT这样的锂行业ETF(交易所交易基金)的原因。

Lithium is like Uranium in 2008.

锂资源现在的情况就像2008年的铀。
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


This might be a good place to ask if people are actually giving advice. What's the big companies that do salt?

这里或许是个适合询问投资建议的好地方。请问有哪些大型公司在从事盐湖提锂业务?

There are a lot of supply constraints including battery production and grid limitations. My bet is on Toyota… IMO hybrids will play a large role in the next decade.

目前存目前存在许多供应限制,包括电池生产和电网容量的局限性。我押注丰田……个人认为,在接下来的十年里,混合动力车将扮演重要角色。
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


While EV adaption is okay, you're underestimating Oil Bonds, Oil Market cap. ..and top 10 commodities..
Crude Oil is 2.1 Trillion .... ....
Distant Distant second is Iron Ore - 296 Billion
Gold - 190 Billion
.... You can google...
Also interesting is Norway the country that have many EVs compared to ICE, have the large investment in Oil fund something Sovereign fund/..

尽管电动汽车的普及趋势良好,,但您似乎低估了石油债券、石油市值以及顶级大宗商品的重要性。
目前原油市场规模达到了2.1万亿美元……远超其他商品。
位居第二名的是铁矿石,其市值约为2960亿美元;
黄金则为1900亿美元左右……
这些数据您可以自行通过谷歌搜索确认。
另外,值得一提的是挪威这个国家,尽管其电动汽车(EV)普及率相对内燃机汽车(ICE)较高,但他们却在主权财富基金中有大量投资于石油相关的项目。

10 yrs is a loooong time from now. Probably the majority of lithium companies in business now will be vanished. Maybe Tesla and Apple will be gone. Who knows. I rather trade my way, with single stocks, to the next big thing and invest in broad ETFs in the meantime. But what do I know.

10年对于未来而言是一个相当长的时间。很可能现在从事锂业务的大多数公司届时将不复存在。甚至特斯拉和苹果这样的大企业也可能消失。谁也无法预测未来。我更倾向于通过交易单个股票,寻找下一个重大机遇,并在此期间投资于广泛的ETF基金。但话说回来,谁知道未来会发生什么呢。

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