韩国决定暂停约7,000名实习医生的医疗执照,“医生的平均收入是20万美元，他们想保住自己的顶层收入””医生置病人生命而不顾，没有职业道德“”我第一次支持尹政府的决定“
正文翻译
评论翻译
@IvanThePohBear
i dont understand why the junior docs are so against university increasing intake?
我不明白为什么初级医生如此反对大学增加招生？
@IvanThePohBear
i dont understand why the junior docs are so against university increasing intake?
我不明白为什么初级医生如此反对大学增加招生？
@shieldyboii
More doctors: less prestige to the Dr. title and they fear competition will lead to lower wages. Mind you, they are about 8 times higher than the national median.
更多的医生的话，医生头衔的声望会降低，同时他们也担心竞争会导致工资降低。请注意，医生的收入大约是全国中位数的8倍。
More doctors: less prestige to the Dr. title and they fear competition will lead to lower wages. Mind you, they are about 8 times higher than the national median.
更多的医生的话，医生头衔的声望会降低，同时他们也担心竞争会导致工资降低。请注意，医生的收入大约是全国中位数的8倍。
@shieldyboii
Average doctor pay is 200k. In canada it’s 150k according to glassdoor. Median income for korea is usd 23k vs 30k in canada.
医生的平均收入是20万美元。根据Glassdoor的数据，加拿大是15万美元。韩国的中位收入是2.3万美元，而加拿大是3万美元。
Average doctor pay is 200k. In canada it’s 150k according to glassdoor. Median income for korea is usd 23k vs 30k in canada.
医生的平均收入是20万美元。根据Glassdoor的数据，加拿大是15万美元。韩国的中位收入是2.3万美元，而加拿大是3万美元。
@monkey11
In order to preserve their top-tier income, disregarding the safety of patients contravenes the Hippocratic Oath.
为了保住自己的顶层收入，置病人的安危而不顾，这违背了希波克拉底誓言。
In order to preserve their top-tier income, disregarding the safety of patients contravenes the Hippocratic Oath.
为了保住自己的顶层收入，置病人的安危而不顾，这违背了希波克拉底誓言。
@rycology
Think of it like a fancy sportscar; if you're one of, say, a few thousand people that own it, it holds prestige. If you're one of a few million people that own it.. less prestige.
把它想象成一辆豪华跑车；如果你是少数几千个拥有它的人之一，那么它就代表着尊贵地位。但如果你是数百万拥有它的人之一，那么它的尊贵感就会减弱。
Think of it like a fancy sportscar; if you're one of, say, a few thousand people that own it, it holds prestige. If you're one of a few million people that own it.. less prestige.
把它想象成一辆豪华跑车；如果你是少数几千个拥有它的人之一，那么它就代表着尊贵地位。但如果你是数百万拥有它的人之一，那么它的尊贵感就会减弱。
@brchao
their seniors are forcing them to. Seniority is a big thing in Asian culture. You don't question the request from an elder, just follow it
they are almost at the gold mine and now you tell them they have to fight for the gold with 2000 more doctors in the future
prestige of being a physician. Similar to the US, all doctors are so high and mighty that many think they are gods. It also brings up the
doctors teach doctors so they might have to teach more students in the future. But they also don't have to work as many hours since there will be more doctors to take shifts
他们的前辈正在迫使年轻的实习医生们接受这个现实。在亚洲文化中，资历占据极其重要的地位。对于年长者的要求，你不应提出质疑，只需遵照执行。他们几乎就要触及到自己的职业巅峰——就如同找到一座金矿，但现在却被告知未来将有额外2000名医生加入这场对金矿的争夺。
医生这一职业拥有极高的威望，这一点与美国相似，许多医生地位极高，以至于很多人视其为如同神明一般的存在。同时，这也引发了一个话题，
即医生需要培养新一代的医生，因此在未来他们可能需要教授更多的学生。但另一方面，随着更多医生的加入，他们在排班时便无需承担过多的工作时间，因为会有更多的医生共同分担值班任务。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
their seniors are forcing them to. Seniority is a big thing in Asian culture. You don't question the request from an elder, just follow it
they are almost at the gold mine and now you tell them they have to fight for the gold with 2000 more doctors in the future
prestige of being a physician. Similar to the US, all doctors are so high and mighty that many think they are gods. It also brings up the
doctors teach doctors so they might have to teach more students in the future. But they also don't have to work as many hours since there will be more doctors to take shifts
他们的前辈正在迫使年轻的实习医生们接受这个现实。在亚洲文化中，资历占据极其重要的地位。对于年长者的要求，你不应提出质疑，只需遵照执行。他们几乎就要触及到自己的职业巅峰——就如同找到一座金矿，但现在却被告知未来将有额外2000名医生加入这场对金矿的争夺。
医生这一职业拥有极高的威望，这一点与美国相似，许多医生地位极高，以至于很多人视其为如同神明一般的存在。同时，这也引发了一个话题，
即医生需要培养新一代的医生，因此在未来他们可能需要教授更多的学生。但另一方面，随着更多医生的加入，他们在排班时便无需承担过多的工作时间，因为会有更多的医生共同分担值班任务。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@brchao
Physicians is a profession that often use patient care as a reason to gatekeep. It's apparent they don't care about that when they are abandoning them just to protest
I also want to add that these trainees studied their asses off to get a position and increasing them means that now people who had somewhat worse result can likely get positions.
医生这个职业常常以患者关怀作为设立行业门槛的理由。然而，当他们仅仅为了抗议而弃患者于不顾时，明显可以看出他们并非真的关心这一点。另外，我还想指出，这些受训医生都曾为了获取职位而拼尽全力学习。一旦增加医生数量，意味着那些成绩相对稍差的人也可能获得职位。
Physicians is a profession that often use patient care as a reason to gatekeep. It's apparent they don't care about that when they are abandoning them just to protest
I also want to add that these trainees studied their asses off to get a position and increasing them means that now people who had somewhat worse result can likely get positions.
医生这个职业常常以患者关怀作为设立行业门槛的理由。然而，当他们仅仅为了抗议而弃患者于不顾时，明显可以看出他们并非真的关心这一点。另外，我还想指出，这些受训医生都曾为了获取职位而拼尽全力学习。一旦增加医生数量，意味着那些成绩相对稍差的人也可能获得职位。
@Eyesalwaysopened
A+ move by Korea to punish these fucks.
Sorry, but studying your ass off doesn’t mean you can gatekeep.
I’ve studied hard too and I’ve trained people who might really one day replace me as a university professor but guess what? It’s life. I rather there be more teachers for the next generation so hopefully more get to attend college and get an education rather then gatekeep like some of my peers.
Are some of my colleagues worse than me? Sure. Do I care if they can still get the job done? Nope. Now imagine this for something like a doctor. Any nation always needs more doctors and medical professionals. There is no argument to be embraced here.
韩国采取行动惩罚这些人堪称明智之举。 不过请记住，拼命学习并不赋予你设立行业壁垒的权利。我同样刻苦钻研，也曾指导过一些未来可能取代我成为大学教授的学生。但生活就是这样。我宁愿下一代能够拥有更多的教师资源，以便让更多人有机会进入大学接受教育，而不是像我某些同行那样设置障碍。
确实，我的一些同事在能力上可能比我稍逊一筹，但我在乎他们能否胜任工作吗？其实并不。试想一下类似的情况应用在医生职业上：任何国家始终都需要更多的医生和医疗专业人才，这一点是毋庸置疑、无需争论的。
A+ move by Korea to punish these fucks.
Sorry, but studying your ass off doesn’t mean you can gatekeep.
I’ve studied hard too and I’ve trained people who might really one day replace me as a university professor but guess what? It’s life. I rather there be more teachers for the next generation so hopefully more get to attend college and get an education rather then gatekeep like some of my peers.
Are some of my colleagues worse than me? Sure. Do I care if they can still get the job done? Nope. Now imagine this for something like a doctor. Any nation always needs more doctors and medical professionals. There is no argument to be embraced here.
韩国采取行动惩罚这些人堪称明智之举。 不过请记住，拼命学习并不赋予你设立行业壁垒的权利。我同样刻苦钻研，也曾指导过一些未来可能取代我成为大学教授的学生。但生活就是这样。我宁愿下一代能够拥有更多的教师资源，以便让更多人有机会进入大学接受教育，而不是像我某些同行那样设置障碍。
确实，我的一些同事在能力上可能比我稍逊一筹，但我在乎他们能否胜任工作吗？其实并不。试想一下类似的情况应用在医生职业上：任何国家始终都需要更多的医生和医疗专业人才，这一点是毋庸置疑、无需争论的。
@SankarshanaV
Absolutely agree with your comment. Healthcare and medical services, especially in a country where the population is aging, cannot, and should not, be gatekept.
完全同意你的观点。医疗保健和医疗服务，特别是在人口老龄化的国家，不能也不应该被限制。
Absolutely agree with your comment. Healthcare and medical services, especially in a country where the population is aging, cannot, and should not, be gatekept.
完全同意你的观点。医疗保健和医疗服务，特别是在人口老龄化的国家，不能也不应该被限制。
@Focusi
I never said I agree with them or think they are justified.
It’s just an observation I have had overall during my 10 years in Korea. Koreans very much have an ’I suffered, so you should too’ attitude.
我从未表示过我赞同他们的观点或认为他们的行为合理。
这只是我在韩国生活十年期间所观察到的一个总体现象。韩国人普遍具有“我曾经受苦，你也应当如此”的态度。
I never said I agree with them or think they are justified.
It’s just an observation I have had overall during my 10 years in Korea. Koreans very much have an ’I suffered, so you should too’ attitude.
我从未表示过我赞同他们的观点或认为他们的行为合理。
这只是我在韩国生活十年期间所观察到的一个总体现象。韩国人普遍具有“我曾经受苦，你也应当如此”的态度。
@Not_Norton
Kind of like the anti-student loan-cancellation crowd in the US.
这有点类似于美国反对取消学生贷款群体的态度。
Kind of like the anti-student loan-cancellation crowd in the US.
这有点类似于美国反对取消学生贷款群体的态度。
@brchao
Gatekeeping is even worse in the US medical field. Med school acceptance rate is like 5% at most schools. When there's not enough doctors to go around, they started letting nurses and NPs to act like primary care and write prescxtions but still won't allow more students into medical schools. When no one wants to go into low paying specialities, they loosen the rules so foreign doctors can take those jobs (in only those specialities). It's all in an effort to make sure doctors are in demand and thus command a larger salary. There is zero justification why we need to wait 2 weeks to see a specialist in a nation like USA.
在美国医疗领域，限制他人进入的情况甚至更糟。大多数学校的医学院录取率大约是5%。当医生不够分配时，他们开始允许护士和护士执业医师像全科医生一样行动并开处方，但仍然不允许更多的学生进入医学院。当没有人愿意从事低薪专业时，他们会放宽规定，让外国医生接手这些工作（仅限这些专业）。这一切都是为了确保医生的需求，在美国这样的国家，我们竟然需要等待两周才能见到专科医生，这是完全站不住脚的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Gatekeeping is even worse in the US medical field. Med school acceptance rate is like 5% at most schools. When there's not enough doctors to go around, they started letting nurses and NPs to act like primary care and write prescxtions but still won't allow more students into medical schools. When no one wants to go into low paying specialities, they loosen the rules so foreign doctors can take those jobs (in only those specialities). It's all in an effort to make sure doctors are in demand and thus command a larger salary. There is zero justification why we need to wait 2 weeks to see a specialist in a nation like USA.
在美国医疗领域，限制他人进入的情况甚至更糟。大多数学校的医学院录取率大约是5%。当医生不够分配时，他们开始允许护士和护士执业医师像全科医生一样行动并开处方，但仍然不允许更多的学生进入医学院。当没有人愿意从事低薪专业时，他们会放宽规定，让外国医生接手这些工作（仅限这些专业）。这一切都是为了确保医生的需求，在美国这样的国家，我们竟然需要等待两周才能见到专科医生，这是完全站不住脚的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@lastdropfalls
They're talking about adding a couple thousand more, not couple millions. The 'somewhat worse' results are like what, 3.945 GPA being sufficient instead of 3.95? It's a joke.
他们谈论的是增加几千名医生，而不是几百万名。所谓的“成绩稍逊”是指什么呢？比如原本需要3.95的GPA现在3.945就足够了吗？这简直是个笑话。
They're talking about adding a couple thousand more, not couple millions. The 'somewhat worse' results are like what, 3.945 GPA being sufficient instead of 3.95? It's a joke.
他们谈论的是增加几千名医生，而不是几百万名。所谓的“成绩稍逊”是指什么呢？比如原本需要3.95的GPA现在3.945就足够了吗？这简直是个笑话。
@Focusi
Yes it is a joke but people are like that. Crabs in a bucket man
没错，这确实是个笑话，但人们往往就是如此。就像桶里的螃蟹一样，互相钳制不许对方爬出桶口。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Yes it is a joke but people are like that. Crabs in a bucket man
没错，这确实是个笑话，但人们往往就是如此。就像桶里的螃蟹一样，互相钳制不许对方爬出桶口。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@Toc_a_Somaten
the few thousands that will get into a medical school with the new slots are also people who studied their asses off and are at the very, very top of all grades, in most cases we are talking about a decimal degree difference, the public will in no way be worse off with the new doctors
新增的数千个医学院名额也会被同样刻苦学习并在大多数情况下仅相差小数点后几位成绩的顶尖学子获得。公众绝对不会因为这批新医生的出现而受到不利影响。
the few thousands that will get into a medical school with the new slots are also people who studied their asses off and are at the very, very top of all grades, in most cases we are talking about a decimal degree difference, the public will in no way be worse off with the new doctors
新增的数千个医学院名额也会被同样刻苦学习并在大多数情况下仅相差小数点后几位成绩的顶尖学子获得。公众绝对不会因为这批新医生的出现而受到不利影响。
@Previous_Shock8870
Absolutely the correct move and an incredibly brave one too,
The lives of Korean citizens arnt to be held hostage for personal prestige.
绝对是正确的举措，也是非常勇敢的一步，
韩国公民的生命不应该因为个人声望而被挟持。
Absolutely the correct move and an incredibly brave one too,
The lives of Korean citizens arnt to be held hostage for personal prestige.
绝对是正确的举措，也是非常勇敢的一步，
韩国公民的生命不应该因为个人声望而被挟持。
@Lahiho
As someone who is not fully informed, what is your understanding of the trainee doctors actions?
作为一个不太了解情况的人，你对实习医生的行动有何理解？
As someone who is not fully informed, what is your understanding of the trainee doctors actions?
作为一个不太了解情况的人，你对实习医生的行动有何理解？
@Previous_Shock8870
The protests or the cause?
They believe allowing more doctors to train waters down the skillset and doesnt fix other problems.
They have suspended work. Most surgeries are being pushed back due to low staffing... (The exact issue the government is trying to prevent.)
But there is a darker reason for the protests. Face culture. Doctors are a restricted and prestigious profession, Doctors are outraged that their social standing and monetary reward will be less with more "normal" people able to become doctors.
这里指的是抗议活动还是其背后的原因？
医生们认为，允许更多医生接受培训会稀释技能水平，并且无法解决其他相关问题。目前，他们已经暂停了工作，由于人手短缺，大部分手术被迫推迟——而这恰恰是政府试图通过增加医生数量来避免的问题。
但抗议的背后还隐藏着一个更为阴暗的原因，那就是面子文化。医生是一个既受限制又享有崇高社会地位的职业，医生们愤慨的是，随着更多“普通人”有机会成为医生，他们的社会地位和经济回报将会降低。
The protests or the cause?
They believe allowing more doctors to train waters down the skillset and doesnt fix other problems.
They have suspended work. Most surgeries are being pushed back due to low staffing... (The exact issue the government is trying to prevent.)
But there is a darker reason for the protests. Face culture. Doctors are a restricted and prestigious profession, Doctors are outraged that their social standing and monetary reward will be less with more "normal" people able to become doctors.
这里指的是抗议活动还是其背后的原因？
医生们认为，允许更多医生接受培训会稀释技能水平，并且无法解决其他相关问题。目前，他们已经暂停了工作，由于人手短缺，大部分手术被迫推迟——而这恰恰是政府试图通过增加医生数量来避免的问题。
但抗议的背后还隐藏着一个更为阴暗的原因，那就是面子文化。医生是一个既受限制又享有崇高社会地位的职业，医生们愤慨的是，随着更多“普通人”有机会成为医生，他们的社会地位和经济回报将会降低。
@Korean_Street_Pizza
A coworker of mine teaches a doctor. She says there are aspects that the media isnt covering.
Doctors teach new doctors. So, they will have to teach double the students for no extra pay.
Classrooms are maxed out already. They will have to find space for double the number of students, or create spaces, with no funds provided.
Students learn anatomy from cadavers. This is difficult in Korea due to burial customs. They will need to find double the amount of bodies without..... Youve guessed it, no extra funding.
They basically want current doctors at university hospitals to work full time as doctors, then work double the current hours as teachers too. Doctors are overworked already, this will lead to accidents.
我的一位同事负责教授医学生。她提到，媒体并没有报道其中的一些方面。
医生通常需要教导新的医生，这意味着在没有额外报酬的情况下，他们将不得不教授双倍的学生人数。
当前的教室已经满负荷运作，学校必须找出空间容纳双倍的学生数量，或者创造新的教学空间，但在没有提供额外资金的情况下实现这一点非常困难。
医学生通过解剖尸体来学习人体解剖学，而在韩国，由于丧葬习俗的影响，尸体来源非常有限。在这种条件下，他们需要寻找双倍数量的用于解剖的遗体，而且正如你可能猜到的，这部分也没有额外的资金支持。
简而言之，他们希望大学医院的现任医生不仅要全职担任医生职务，还要承担目前两倍的教学工作时间。医生们本就超负荷工作，这种情况可能导致医疗事故的发生。
A coworker of mine teaches a doctor. She says there are aspects that the media isnt covering.
Doctors teach new doctors. So, they will have to teach double the students for no extra pay.
Classrooms are maxed out already. They will have to find space for double the number of students, or create spaces, with no funds provided.
Students learn anatomy from cadavers. This is difficult in Korea due to burial customs. They will need to find double the amount of bodies without..... Youve guessed it, no extra funding.
They basically want current doctors at university hospitals to work full time as doctors, then work double the current hours as teachers too. Doctors are overworked already, this will lead to accidents.
我的一位同事负责教授医学生。她提到，媒体并没有报道其中的一些方面。
医生通常需要教导新的医生，这意味着在没有额外报酬的情况下，他们将不得不教授双倍的学生人数。
当前的教室已经满负荷运作，学校必须找出空间容纳双倍的学生数量，或者创造新的教学空间，但在没有提供额外资金的情况下实现这一点非常困难。
医学生通过解剖尸体来学习人体解剖学，而在韩国，由于丧葬习俗的影响，尸体来源非常有限。在这种条件下，他们需要寻找双倍数量的用于解剖的遗体，而且正如你可能猜到的，这部分也没有额外的资金支持。
简而言之，他们希望大学医院的现任医生不仅要全职担任医生职务，还要承担目前两倍的教学工作时间。医生们本就超负荷工作，这种情况可能导致医疗事故的发生。
@Previous_Shock8870
The korean medical org she is assigned to actively fought against expansions to schooling.
Your friend is being disingenious with the truth.
Its entirely being funded by the government, they already had provincial agreements with schools.
她所属的韩国医疗机构一直积极抵制医学院校扩招。
您的朋友对事实有所曲解。
实际上，医学院扩招计划完全是由政府出资，并且他们早已与各地方院校达成了省级合作协议。
The korean medical org she is assigned to actively fought against expansions to schooling.
Your friend is being disingenious with the truth.
Its entirely being funded by the government, they already had provincial agreements with schools.
她所属的韩国医疗机构一直积极抵制医学院校扩招。
您的朋友对事实有所曲解。
实际上，医学院扩招计划完全是由政府出资，并且他们早已与各地方院校达成了省级合作协议。
@Korean_Street_Pizza
But classrooms setup for 100 students are now told to accommodate 200, or have the doctors teach the same class twice as part of their duties. No new facilities will be built any time soon.
但原本设计容纳100名学生的教室现在被要求接纳200名学生，或者让医生作为其职责的一部分，重复教授同一门课程两次。而且短期内不会有新建的教学设施。
But classrooms setup for 100 students are now told to accommodate 200, or have the doctors teach the same class twice as part of their duties. No new facilities will be built any time soon.
但原本设计容纳100名学生的教室现在被要求接纳200名学生，或者让医生作为其职责的一部分，重复教授同一门课程两次。而且短期内不会有新建的教学设施。
@maybeitsme20
Why is it mostly the trainees then and not the current doctors/teachers??
为什么罢工的主要是实习生而不是现在的医生/教师呢？？
Why is it mostly the trainees then and not the current doctors/teachers??
为什么罢工的主要是实习生而不是现在的医生/教师呢？？
@malusfacticius
Never the excuse to take your patients hostage. Makes you question the integrity of these medical practitioners who'd use your wellbeing as bargaining chips.
Too much work to do? They might as well go fuck themselves in unemployment.
绝对不能以病人为要挟，这种行为不禁让人怀疑这些医疗从业者的道德品质，他们竟然将自己的职责和患者的安康当作谈判条件。如果抱怨工作负担太重，那他们还不如直接失业算了。
Never the excuse to take your patients hostage. Makes you question the integrity of these medical practitioners who'd use your wellbeing as bargaining chips.
Too much work to do? They might as well go fuck themselves in unemployment.
绝对不能以病人为要挟，这种行为不禁让人怀疑这些医疗从业者的道德品质，他们竟然将自己的职责和患者的安康当作谈判条件。如果抱怨工作负担太重，那他们还不如直接失业算了。
@Top-Parsnip1262
If doctors are overworked doesn't it make sense to train more doctors?
如果医生过劳，那么培训更多的医生难道不是更有意义的吗？
If doctors are overworked doesn't it make sense to train more doctors?
如果医生过劳，那么培训更多的医生难道不是更有意义的吗？
@Korean_Street_Pizza
But it is the overworked doctors who will do this training. That's the issue. The solution is the doctors who are teaching classes of 100 students, can either teach classes of 200, or teach 2 clases of 100 whilst working as doctors in the hospital.
问题在于，培训工作将由那些已经过度劳累的医生来承担。解决方案则是让那些本来教授100名学生班级的医生，要么教授包含200名学生的班级，要么在医院担任医生的同时，教授两个各有100名学生的班级。
But it is the overworked doctors who will do this training. That's the issue. The solution is the doctors who are teaching classes of 100 students, can either teach classes of 200, or teach 2 clases of 100 whilst working as doctors in the hospital.
问题在于，培训工作将由那些已经过度劳累的医生来承担。解决方案则是让那些本来教授100名学生班级的医生，要么教授包含200名学生的班级，要么在医院担任医生的同时，教授两个各有100名学生的班级。
@Top-Parsnip1262
I'd imagine that could be worked out. And if that is indeed the only problem they have then the doctors need to hire a better PR firm. The AMA in the US for example has enforced the same doctor quota for decades to keep salaries high so perhaps I'm a bit cynical.
我想这是可以解决的。如果这确实是他们唯一面临的问题，那么医生们需要聘请一家更好的公关公司。例如，美国医学协会（AMA）几十年来一直强制执行医生配额制度以维持高薪，所以我可能有点愤世嫉俗。
I'd imagine that could be worked out. And if that is indeed the only problem they have then the doctors need to hire a better PR firm. The AMA in the US for example has enforced the same doctor quota for decades to keep salaries high so perhaps I'm a bit cynical.
我想这是可以解决的。如果这确实是他们唯一面临的问题，那么医生们需要聘请一家更好的公关公司。例如，美国医学协会（AMA）几十年来一直强制执行医生配额制度以维持高薪，所以我可能有点愤世嫉俗。
@3d_extra
Schools have the space and jumping on the opportunity to have additional medicine TOs. My school has a building the same size for medicine as for half of engineering. 600 students per year versus 40. It's a ghost town. Famous university with a famous hospital. Most of the doctor's arguments don't stand up under scrutiny.
学校有足够的空间，并正在抓住机会增设医学教师职位。以我的学校为例，用于医学专业的楼舍面积与工程专业的一半相当，每年招收600名医学学生，而工程专业只招收40名学生。尽管是一所拥有著名医院的知名大学，但大部分的医生论点经不起推敲，事实上，医学大楼常常空荡如鬼城。
Schools have the space and jumping on the opportunity to have additional medicine TOs. My school has a building the same size for medicine as for half of engineering. 600 students per year versus 40. It's a ghost town. Famous university with a famous hospital. Most of the doctor's arguments don't stand up under scrutiny.
学校有足够的空间，并正在抓住机会增设医学教师职位。以我的学校为例，用于医学专业的楼舍面积与工程专业的一半相当，每年招收600名医学学生，而工程专业只招收40名学生。尽管是一所拥有著名医院的知名大学，但大部分的医生论点经不起推敲，事实上，医学大楼常常空荡如鬼城。
@Toc_a_Somaten
The moment the doctor's strikes threaten the life of their patients is the moment their protest loses every legitimacy. They pleaded the Hippocratic oath, once they breach it they are no longer doctors. Btw I know the issue very well not by teaching but living with several doctors for 40 years
一旦医生罢工威胁到患者生命安全的那一刻起，他们的抗议行动就会失去所有正当性。他们曾宣誓遵守希波克拉底誓言，一旦违背誓言，他们就不再是真正的医生。顺便提一句，我对这个问题非常了解，并非通过教学，而是因为我与几位医生共同生活了40年。
The moment the doctor's strikes threaten the life of their patients is the moment their protest loses every legitimacy. They pleaded the Hippocratic oath, once they breach it they are no longer doctors. Btw I know the issue very well not by teaching but living with several doctors for 40 years
一旦医生罢工威胁到患者生命安全的那一刻起，他们的抗议行动就会失去所有正当性。他们曾宣誓遵守希波克拉底誓言，一旦违背誓言，他们就不再是真正的医生。顺便提一句，我对这个问题非常了解，并非通过教学，而是因为我与几位医生共同生活了40年。
@yoho808
It's an incredibly effective tactic to target individuals' career paths...
If the govt says something like last x number of people who fail to return to work will permanently lose their medical license with no chance of appeal, then that might potentially trigger panic amongst the protestors...
这种针对个体职业生涯路径的策略极为有效……如果政府宣布，最后一批未能返岗工作的医生将永久吊销其行医执照，且无申诉机会，那么这很可能在抗议者中引发恐慌……
It's an incredibly effective tactic to target individuals' career paths...
If the govt says something like last x number of people who fail to return to work will permanently lose their medical license with no chance of appeal, then that might potentially trigger panic amongst the protestors...
这种针对个体职业生涯路径的策略极为有效……如果政府宣布，最后一批未能返岗工作的医生将永久吊销其行医执照，且无申诉机会，那么这很可能在抗议者中引发恐慌……
@MyStateIsHotShit
… are you out your damn mind, that’s 40-60% of licensed hospital staff who will be forced to give new doctors and whoever stays grueling 112-120 hour work weeks.
If they stop working, the sick are effectively going to be abandoned.
…你是不是疯了，这意味着40%至60%的在册医院工作人员将被迫给新医生以及留下的医生安排每周高达112至120小时的繁重工作量。
如果他们停止工作，实质上就是将病人弃之不顾。
… are you out your damn mind, that’s 40-60% of licensed hospital staff who will be forced to give new doctors and whoever stays grueling 112-120 hour work weeks.
If they stop working, the sick are effectively going to be abandoned.
…你是不是疯了，这意味着40%至60%的在册医院工作人员将被迫给新医生以及留下的医生安排每周高达112至120小时的繁重工作量。
如果他们停止工作，实质上就是将病人弃之不顾。
@yoho808
You're assuming absolutely nothing can be done to fill the gap to help the patients. But, there are other healthcare professionals like nurses who can effectively fill the gap. The only thing stopping them is a legal boundary saying they can't do certain things. The reality is though that many of them actually possess the necessary skills, knowledge, and experience to perform the task at a similar level.
您似乎在假设没有任何办法填补医护人员空缺以帮助病人。但实际上，还有诸如护士等其他医疗保健专业人员能够有效地填补这一空缺。唯一阻碍他们发挥作用的是法律边界规定了他们不能从事某些特定工作。然而，现实中，许多护士实际上已经具备了执行类似任务所需的相关技能、知识和经验。
You're assuming absolutely nothing can be done to fill the gap to help the patients. But, there are other healthcare professionals like nurses who can effectively fill the gap. The only thing stopping them is a legal boundary saying they can't do certain things. The reality is though that many of them actually possess the necessary skills, knowledge, and experience to perform the task at a similar level.
您似乎在假设没有任何办法填补医护人员空缺以帮助病人。但实际上，还有诸如护士等其他医疗保健专业人员能够有效地填补这一空缺。唯一阻碍他们发挥作用的是法律边界规定了他们不能从事某些特定工作。然而，现实中，许多护士实际上已经具备了执行类似任务所需的相关技能、知识和经验。
@Paint-Active
The reason hosiptals use junior doctors are because they are cheap. Hospitals are not going to hire nurses that have double slsary or trainee docctors nor would nurses want more responsibility for the same pay.
医院使用初级医生的原因是他们便宜。医院不会雇佣薪水翻倍的护士或实习医生，护士也不会希望在同样的薪水下承担更多的责任。
The reason hosiptals use junior doctors are because they are cheap. Hospitals are not going to hire nurses that have double slsary or trainee docctors nor would nurses want more responsibility for the same pay.
医院使用初级医生的原因是他们便宜。医院不会雇佣薪水翻倍的护士或实习医生，护士也不会希望在同样的薪水下承担更多的责任。
@enarius
Doctors and nurses are not interchangeable. You significantly underestimate what 'junior' doctors do, who may have up to 30,000 hours of training and clinical experience under their belt before they finish. Training is incomparable.
医生和护士不是可以互换的。你严重低估了“初级”医生的工作，他们在完成学业之前可能已经有多达30,000小时的培训和临床经验。他们的培训是无法比较的。
Doctors and nurses are not interchangeable. You significantly underestimate what 'junior' doctors do, who may have up to 30,000 hours of training and clinical experience under their belt before they finish. Training is incomparable.
医生和护士不是可以互换的。你严重低估了“初级”医生的工作，他们在完成学业之前可能已经有多达30,000小时的培训和临床经验。他们的培训是无法比较的。
@MyStateIsHotShit
will permanently lose their medical license with no chance of appeal
Revoking a license in this manner literally bans people from being doctors for the rest of their lives. You're assuming absolutely nothing can be done to fill the gap to help the patients
Literally the only practical thing that can be done is literally freaking nothing, in that scenario. Best case scenario is Korea attempts to immigrate thousands of foreign doctors by enticing them with rights, privileges, and protection from rampant Korean ethnic discrimination, which is nigh on never going to happen.
将永久剥夺其行医执照，且无上诉机会 这种方式实际上是在禁止相关人员终身从事医生职业。您假定无法采取任何措施填补空缺以帮助患者。 在那种情况下，唯一可行的实际操作就是基本上什么也不做。最好的情况是韩国尝试通过提供权利、特权以及保护他们免受普遍存在的种族歧视待遇，吸引数千名外国医生移民过来，但这几乎是不可能发生的。
will permanently lose their medical license with no chance of appeal
Revoking a license in this manner literally bans people from being doctors for the rest of their lives. You're assuming absolutely nothing can be done to fill the gap to help the patients
Literally the only practical thing that can be done is literally freaking nothing, in that scenario. Best case scenario is Korea attempts to immigrate thousands of foreign doctors by enticing them with rights, privileges, and protection from rampant Korean ethnic discrimination, which is nigh on never going to happen.
将永久剥夺其行医执照，且无上诉机会 这种方式实际上是在禁止相关人员终身从事医生职业。您假定无法采取任何措施填补空缺以帮助患者。 在那种情况下，唯一可行的实际操作就是基本上什么也不做。最好的情况是韩国尝试通过提供权利、特权以及保护他们免受普遍存在的种族歧视待遇，吸引数千名外国医生移民过来，但这几乎是不可能发生的。
@Kyokudo
Absolutely! The doctors need to be held accountable. All too often Koreans have a mentality of not facing up to the responsibility of their actions and shifting blame on to others. I have seen this time and time again over the many years I have been here. It seems to be an innate trait among the Korean people in general.
确实如此！医生应该为此承担责任。韩国人往往有一种不愿直面自己行为责任、转而将过错归咎他人的倾向。在我在这里多年的时间里，我已经一次又一次地目睹了这一现象。这似乎是一种韩国人普遍固有的特质。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Absolutely! The doctors need to be held accountable. All too often Koreans have a mentality of not facing up to the responsibility of their actions and shifting blame on to others. I have seen this time and time again over the many years I have been here. It seems to be an innate trait among the Korean people in general.
确实如此！医生应该为此承担责任。韩国人往往有一种不愿直面自己行为责任、转而将过错归咎他人的倾向。在我在这里多年的时间里，我已经一次又一次地目睹了这一现象。这似乎是一种韩国人普遍固有的特质。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@soyasauce0
I find it hypocritical that they complain about getting overworked but also protested against nurses getting more responsibility.
我觉得他们抱怨过度劳累，同时又反对护士承担更多责任，这是虚伪的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I find it hypocritical that they complain about getting overworked but also protested against nurses getting more responsibility.
我觉得他们抱怨过度劳累，同时又反对护士承担更多责任，这是虚伪的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@eddiekart
Remember, the medical association is the one that goes apeshit about trying to make tattooing without a medical license legal.
You NEED a medical license to give tattoos in Korea. I believe there have been attempts to repeal that, but the doctors really did not like it.
请记住，医疗协会坚决反对将无医疗执照纹身合法化。在韩国，你必须持有医疗执照才能从事纹身工作。我相信曾有人试图废除这一规定，但医生们对此非常不满。
Remember, the medical association is the one that goes apeshit about trying to make tattooing without a medical license legal.
You NEED a medical license to give tattoos in Korea. I believe there have been attempts to repeal that, but the doctors really did not like it.
请记住，医疗协会坚决反对将无医疗执照纹身合法化。在韩国，你必须持有医疗执照才能从事纹身工作。我相信曾有人试图废除这一规定，但医生们对此非常不满。
@mattnolan77
Which is such an obvious attempt to just hold on to power and feel special. How many doctors are actually giving tattoos?
这是一种明显的试图保持权力和特殊感的行为。实际上有多少医生在给人纹身呢？
Which is such an obvious attempt to just hold on to power and feel special. How many doctors are actually giving tattoos?
这是一种明显的试图保持权力和特殊感的行为。实际上有多少医生在给人纹身呢？
@heycanwediscuss
So are the tattooists illegal because I highly doubt all those tattooists are medical doctors
那么纹身师是非法的吗？因为我高度怀疑所有那些纹身师都是医生。
So are the tattooists illegal because I highly doubt all those tattooists are medical doctors
那么纹身师是非法的吗？因为我高度怀疑所有那些纹身师都是医生。
@PlebiconValley
It's kind of funny how out of touch they are. Like there's a way to do this without making themselves look like assholes. Instead, they add fuel to fire and play into every negative portrayal. You reap what you sow
很讽刺的是，他们竟然如此脱节。其实本可以不用把自己变成恶人的方式来解决问题，但他们却选择了火上浇油，加深了自身的负面形象。种什么因，得什么果。
It's kind of funny how out of touch they are. Like there's a way to do this without making themselves look like assholes. Instead, they add fuel to fire and play into every negative portrayal. You reap what you sow
很讽刺的是，他们竟然如此脱节。其实本可以不用把自己变成恶人的方式来解决问题，但他们却选择了火上浇油，加深了自身的负面形象。种什么因，得什么果。
@_hanboks
Exactly this. When the public is against your demands (and not only the government) is over for you, and they're so out of touch they don't see it. They're willing to lose their licenses instead of sitting down with the government for them both to compromise and/or reach a middle ground.
正是如此。当公众站在你的对立面（不仅仅只是政府），你们就已经输了，但他们却没有意识到这一点，与现实严重脱节。他们宁可冒着丢掉医疗执照的风险，也不愿意坐下来与政府协商妥协，寻求双方都能接受的中间地带。
Exactly this. When the public is against your demands (and not only the government) is over for you, and they're so out of touch they don't see it. They're willing to lose their licenses instead of sitting down with the government for them both to compromise and/or reach a middle ground.
正是如此。当公众站在你的对立面（不仅仅只是政府），你们就已经输了，但他们却没有意识到这一点，与现实严重脱节。他们宁可冒着丢掉医疗执照的风险，也不愿意坐下来与政府协商妥协，寻求双方都能接受的中间地带。
@hsel2010
Doctors have gone too far this time. Abandoning lives cannot be justified for a doctor.
这次医生们做得太过分了。放弃病人的生命对医生来说是不可原谅的。
Doctors have gone too far this time. Abandoning lives cannot be justified for a doctor.
这次医生们做得太过分了。放弃病人的生命对医生来说是不可原谅的。
@blazing420kilk
If patients died due to the doctors walkout and protest then wouldn't they have effectively violated their Hippocratic oath that they took when they became doctors in the first place?
如果病人因为医生的罢工和抗议而死亡，那么他们岂不是实际上违反了他们最初成为医生时所宣誓的希波克拉底誓言？
If patients died due to the doctors walkout and protest then wouldn't they have effectively violated their Hippocratic oath that they took when they became doctors in the first place?
如果病人因为医生的罢工和抗议而死亡，那么他们岂不是实际上违反了他们最初成为医生时所宣誓的希波克拉底誓言？
@Ok_Willingness_9619
They need to make a serious example out of them or this cycle of protesting will never end. Make sure the main instigators are banned from practising forever.
需要对这些人做出严肃的处理，以此为鉴，否则抗议循环将永无止境。确保主要煽动者被永久禁止行医。
They need to make a serious example out of them or this cycle of protesting will never end. Make sure the main instigators are banned from practising forever.
需要对这些人做出严肃的处理，以此为鉴，否则抗议循环将永无止境。确保主要煽动者被永久禁止行医。
@Peregrinebullet
Ah yes, because shooting yourself in the foot is a great way to walk faster. If you ban them, the medical system is going to be under even more strain and more people will suffer. 6000+ doctors is not a skill set demographic you can replace quickly anywhere in the world, let alone in a country with a unique language like Korean. (Unlike countries that speak english/French/Spanish, where, in theory, there's a whole diaspora of trained doctors that could immigrate in and sit the exams)
啊，没错，因为自断一足显然是加快行走速度的好方法。如果对他们进行禁令处罚，医疗系统将会承受更大的压力，更多的人将会受到影响。在全球范围内，尤其是像韩国这样拥有独特语言的国家，6000多名医生并不是一个可以迅速替代的技术人才群体。相比之下，在理论上，那些使用英语、法语或西班牙语的国家有一整个海外受训医生群体，他们可以移民进来并通过相关考试来填补空缺。
Ah yes, because shooting yourself in the foot is a great way to walk faster. If you ban them, the medical system is going to be under even more strain and more people will suffer. 6000+ doctors is not a skill set demographic you can replace quickly anywhere in the world, let alone in a country with a unique language like Korean. (Unlike countries that speak english/French/Spanish, where, in theory, there's a whole diaspora of trained doctors that could immigrate in and sit the exams)
啊，没错，因为自断一足显然是加快行走速度的好方法。如果对他们进行禁令处罚，医疗系统将会承受更大的压力，更多的人将会受到影响。在全球范围内，尤其是像韩国这样拥有独特语言的国家，6000多名医生并不是一个可以迅速替代的技术人才群体。相比之下，在理论上，那些使用英语、法语或西班牙语的国家有一整个海外受训医生群体，他们可以移民进来并通过相关考试来填补空缺。
@Ok_Willingness_9619
You are not wrong. But either that or government will be forever under the thumbs of these terrorists.
您说得没错。但如果不这样做，政府可能会永远受这些恐怖分子的控制。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
You are not wrong. But either that or government will be forever under the thumbs of these terrorists.
您说得没错。但如果不这样做，政府可能会永远受这些恐怖分子的控制。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@Peregrinebullet
Protesting working conditions does not make people terrorists. Holy Overton window dude. You are equating people who are trying to fight for better working conditions to people who blow shit up to terrorize civilians. That is not okay or accurate.
抗议工作条件并不等于恐怖分子。天哪，您这是在混淆概念。您将争取改善工作条件的人与通过爆炸袭击恐吓平民的人相提并论，这是不恰当且不准确的。
Protesting working conditions does not make people terrorists. Holy Overton window dude. You are equating people who are trying to fight for better working conditions to people who blow shit up to terrorize civilians. That is not okay or accurate.
抗议工作条件并不等于恐怖分子。天哪，您这是在混淆概念。您将争取改善工作条件的人与通过爆炸袭击恐吓平民的人相提并论，这是不恰当且不准确的。
@Previous_Shock8870
People have ALREADY died due to these protests.
They are betting on the lives of citizens to artificially restrict their proffesion (gatekeep). When we are already critically short on Doctors.
Terrorism, hostage taking are the CORRECT terms.
已有民众因这些抗议活动而死亡。
他们正押注于公民的生命，以人工方式限制他们的职业（设置行业门槛）。而我们现在严重缺乏医生。
恐怖主义、劫持人质等用词是恰如其分的。
People have ALREADY died due to these protests.
They are betting on the lives of citizens to artificially restrict their proffesion (gatekeep). When we are already critically short on Doctors.
Terrorism, hostage taking are the CORRECT terms.
已有民众因这些抗议活动而死亡。
他们正押注于公民的生命，以人工方式限制他们的职业（设置行业门槛）。而我们现在严重缺乏医生。
恐怖主义、劫持人质等用词是恰如其分的。
@Ok_Willingness_9619
Are you sure?
Definition of terrorist: “In its broadest sense, is the use of intentional violence and intimidation to achieve political or ideological aims”
你确定吗？
恐怖主义的广义定义：“指为了实现政治或意识形态目标，有意使用暴力和恐吓手段。”
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Are you sure?
Definition of terrorist: “In its broadest sense, is the use of intentional violence and intimidation to achieve political or ideological aims”
你确定吗？
恐怖主义的广义定义：“指为了实现政治或意识形态目标，有意使用暴力和恐吓手段。”
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@Peregrinebullet
Yes, I work in public safety and get to read all the fun intelligence bulletins sent to my workplace about what actual terrorists are up to. When you are planning to protect your workplace from actually murderous fuckwits, while also accomodating a rotating cadre of people who are non violently protesting on the property for whatever grievances they have, these definitions are important.
是的，我从事公共安全工作，经常会收到关于真实恐怖分子活动的情报简报。当我们既要防范那些真正具有杀伤力的混蛋，同时又要妥善应对因各种不满而在工作场所进行非暴力抗议的人群时，这些定义非常重要。
Yes, I work in public safety and get to read all the fun intelligence bulletins sent to my workplace about what actual terrorists are up to. When you are planning to protect your workplace from actually murderous fuckwits, while also accomodating a rotating cadre of people who are non violently protesting on the property for whatever grievances they have, these definitions are important.
是的，我从事公共安全工作，经常会收到关于真实恐怖分子活动的情报简报。当我们既要防范那些真正具有杀伤力的混蛋，同时又要妥善应对因各种不满而在工作场所进行非暴力抗议的人群时，这些定义非常重要。
@Ok_Willingness_9619
Yeah I’ll give you that. They are in a tough spot. And I do see how adding more trainees to the system will hurt their chances of advancement as there will be more competition. What I have issue with is the way they went about negotiating with the government. This mass workout which effectively has crippled many parts of vital system is in my mind effectively terrorism. You don’t have to blow shit up and kill people directly to be causing terror. They have taken the well being of the people as hostage and negotiating with the shitty government in order to get what they want.
是的，我承认这一点。他们处境艰难。我确实看到了增加更多实习生对系统的影响，会因为他们面临更多竞争而损害他们的晋升机会。我对他们与政府谈判的方式有问题。这种大规模的罢工实际上已经使许多关键系统的部分瘫痪，在我看来，这实际上就是恐怖主义。你不必直接炸毁东西和杀人来制造恐怖。他们把人民的福祉作为人质，与糟糕的政府谈判，以获得他们想要的东西。
Yeah I’ll give you that. They are in a tough spot. And I do see how adding more trainees to the system will hurt their chances of advancement as there will be more competition. What I have issue with is the way they went about negotiating with the government. This mass workout which effectively has crippled many parts of vital system is in my mind effectively terrorism. You don’t have to blow shit up and kill people directly to be causing terror. They have taken the well being of the people as hostage and negotiating with the shitty government in order to get what they want.
是的，我承认这一点。他们处境艰难。我确实看到了增加更多实习生对系统的影响，会因为他们面临更多竞争而损害他们的晋升机会。我对他们与政府谈判的方式有问题。这种大规模的罢工实际上已经使许多关键系统的部分瘫痪，在我看来，这实际上就是恐怖主义。你不必直接炸毁东西和杀人来制造恐怖。他们把人民的福祉作为人质，与糟糕的政府谈判，以获得他们想要的东西。
@Ok_Willingness_9619
Other critical infrastructure strikes do it in a staggered manner. Like 30% walk off the job as to not bring the whole system down. That’s what non-narcissistic people do.
其他关键基础设施的罢工是以错开的方式进行的。比如30%的人离开工作岗位，以免整个系统崩溃。这就是非自恋者会做的事情。
Other critical infrastructure strikes do it in a staggered manner. Like 30% walk off the job as to not bring the whole system down. That’s what non-narcissistic people do.
其他关键基础设施的罢工是以错开的方式进行的。比如30%的人离开工作岗位，以免整个系统崩溃。这就是非自恋者会做的事情。
@lastdropfalls
They are not protesting working conditions. They are protesting removal of artificial caps on amount of medical trainees. It's not even remotely the same thing.
他们不是在抗议工作条件。他们是在抗议取消对医学实习生数量的人为限制。这两者根本就是完全不同的事情。
They are not protesting working conditions. They are protesting removal of artificial caps on amount of medical trainees. It's not even remotely the same thing.
他们不是在抗议工作条件。他们是在抗议取消对医学实习生数量的人为限制。这两者根本就是完全不同的事情。
@shieldyboii
Most Korean doctors are skilled in english. Foreign doctors could perform their jobs pretty well. Especially with the relatively high levels of pay Korean doctors already get, it would be an attractive position for foreigners. Not all would have to be patient facing. Remote care and digital health are also technologies that could lessens the load.
大多数韩国医生精通英语。外国医生可以很好地执行他们的工作。尤其是韩国医生已经获得的相对较高的薪酬水平，这对外国人来说将是一个有吸引力的职位。并非所有医生都必须直接面对病人。远程护理和数字健康也是可以减轻负担的技术。
Most Korean doctors are skilled in english. Foreign doctors could perform their jobs pretty well. Especially with the relatively high levels of pay Korean doctors already get, it would be an attractive position for foreigners. Not all would have to be patient facing. Remote care and digital health are also technologies that could lessens the load.
大多数韩国医生精通英语。外国医生可以很好地执行他们的工作。尤其是韩国医生已经获得的相对较高的薪酬水平，这对外国人来说将是一个有吸引力的职位。并非所有医生都必须直接面对病人。远程护理和数字健康也是可以减轻负担的技术。
@Peregrinebullet
Holdup, so all the patients, nurses and admin these doctors need to interact with can speak English too? And the Korean medical exams are available to be taken in English? Medical professionals in Korea don't need to speak Korean? All the medical documents are in English too?
等等，这些医生需要与之互动的病人、护士和行政人员也能说英语吗？韩国的医学考试可以用英语进行吗？韩国的医疗专业人员不需要说韩语吗？所有的医疗文件也都是英文的吗？
Holdup, so all the patients, nurses and admin these doctors need to interact with can speak English too? And the Korean medical exams are available to be taken in English? Medical professionals in Korea don't need to speak Korean? All the medical documents are in English too?
等等，这些医生需要与之互动的病人、护士和行政人员也能说英语吗？韩国的医学考试可以用英语进行吗？韩国的医疗专业人员不需要说韩语吗？所有的医疗文件也都是英文的吗？
@shieldyboii
Pretty much all your books will aready be in english. The treatment recommendations come mostly from ASCO, in english. Any new medical research is in english. These people are the best students in Korea, they can handle english no problem.
基本上所有的书籍已经是英文的了。治疗建议主要来自ASCO（美国临床肿瘤学会），是英文的。任何新的医学研究都是英文的。这些人是韩国最优秀的学生，他们处理英语没有问题。
Pretty much all your books will aready be in english. The treatment recommendations come mostly from ASCO, in english. Any new medical research is in english. These people are the best students in Korea, they can handle english no problem.
基本上所有的书籍已经是英文的了。治疗建议主要来自ASCO（美国临床肿瘤学会），是英文的。任何新的医学研究都是英文的。这些人是韩国最优秀的学生，他们处理英语没有问题。
@Peregrinebullet
Your books can be in English but that won't save you from having to write the Korean equivalent of the board exams (I forget what they're called). This not about other medical staff knowing english either. Doctors are useless to their patients if they can't understand their complaints. Any incoming doctors would be replacing those front line trainee doctors. They HAVE to speak Korean. Even if it's so they can interact with the housekeeping staff and read medical records.
你的教科书可以是英文版的，但这并不能让你免于参加韩国相当于医学执照考试（我忘了具体名称）的考试。这不仅仅关乎其他医护人员是否懂英语。如果医生不能理解患者的病情描述，那么对患者来说他们就毫无用处。任何新入职的医生都将会接替一线实习医生的职位。他们必须会说韩语，即使是为了能够与医院的后勤人员交流，以及阅读病历记录。
Your books can be in English but that won't save you from having to write the Korean equivalent of the board exams (I forget what they're called). This not about other medical staff knowing english either. Doctors are useless to their patients if they can't understand their complaints. Any incoming doctors would be replacing those front line trainee doctors. They HAVE to speak Korean. Even if it's so they can interact with the housekeeping staff and read medical records.
你的教科书可以是英文版的，但这并不能让你免于参加韩国相当于医学执照考试（我忘了具体名称）的考试。这不仅仅关乎其他医护人员是否懂英语。如果医生不能理解患者的病情描述，那么对患者来说他们就毫无用处。任何新入职的医生都将会接替一线实习医生的职位。他们必须会说韩语，即使是为了能够与医院的后勤人员交流，以及阅读病历记录。
@enarius
Classic case of cutting the nose to spite the face. Even the first year residents are 7 years along in their training. Do you think the system would cope with how it is like with the doctors strike for the next 7 years? And no, the English speaking world already has enough issues recruiting foreign med grads. Forget about Korea.
典型的损人不利己。即使是第一年的住院医师也已经接受了7年的培训，你觉得在接下来的7年内，医疗系统能应对因为医生罢工而产生的问题吗？再者，英语国家在招聘外国医学院毕业生方面已经有足够多的问题了，更别提韩国了。
Classic case of cutting the nose to spite the face. Even the first year residents are 7 years along in their training. Do you think the system would cope with how it is like with the doctors strike for the next 7 years? And no, the English speaking world already has enough issues recruiting foreign med grads. Forget about Korea.
典型的损人不利己。即使是第一年的住院医师也已经接受了7年的培训，你觉得在接下来的7年内，医疗系统能应对因为医生罢工而产生的问题吗？再者，英语国家在招聘外国医学院毕业生方面已经有足够多的问题了，更别提韩国了。
@MayIPikachu
Selfish pricks. Ban their licenses forever. They'll be stuck peddling lasers and Botox.
自私的混蛋。应该永远吊销他们的行医执照。这样他们只能困于售卖激光美容和肉毒素这些业务了。
Selfish pricks. Ban their licenses forever. They'll be stuck peddling lasers and Botox.
自私的混蛋。应该永远吊销他们的行医执照。这样他们只能困于售卖激光美容和肉毒素这些业务了。
@DLKWA
People have literally died because of this walkout/protest.
For people who are in a line of work that says "Do no harm", they sure are doing a lot of harm.
真的有人因为这个罢工/抗议而死亡。
对于那些声称“不造成伤害”的职业的人来说，他们确实造成了很多伤害。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
People have literally died because of this walkout/protest.
For people who are in a line of work that says "Do no harm", they sure are doing a lot of harm.
真的有人因为这个罢工/抗议而死亡。
对于那些声称“不造成伤害”的职业的人来说，他们确实造成了很多伤害。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@Taeyoonie_
Perfect. Revoke it forever please. Let's import doctors from the Philippines and Latin America while we wait for new doctors to be trained.
完美。请永远吊销他们的执照。让我们在等待新医生培训的同时，从菲律宾和拉丁美洲引进医生。
Perfect. Revoke it forever please. Let's import doctors from the Philippines and Latin America while we wait for new doctors to be trained.
完美。请永远吊销他们的执照。让我们在等待新医生培训的同时，从菲律宾和拉丁美洲引进医生。
@Paint-Active
Koreans only want doctors from the big5 hospitals they would never go to doctors from latin america or the philippines
韩国人只想要来自五大医院的医生，他们绝不会去看来自拉丁美洲或菲律宾的医生。
Koreans only want doctors from the big5 hospitals they would never go to doctors from latin america or the philippines
韩国人只想要来自五大医院的医生，他们绝不会去看来自拉丁美洲或菲律宾的医生。
@Coz131
Can't. Training and language is different. Send the patients to Japan, or Taiwan for treatment.
不行。培训和语言是不同的。把病人送到日本或台湾接受治疗。
Can't. Training and language is different. Send the patients to Japan, or Taiwan for treatment.
不行。培训和语言是不同的。把病人送到日本或台湾接受治疗。
@Taeyoonie_
Because in Japan and Taiwan the language and training is the same? Lol
因为在日语和台湾的语言和培训是一样的？哈哈。
Because in Japan and Taiwan the language and training is the same? Lol
因为在日语和台湾的语言和培训是一样的？哈哈。
@sidaeinjae
Native
필리핀이랑 라틴아메리카에선 여기ㅠ오고 싶대?.. 한국인들이 걔네들한테 갈 거 같음?..
本地人
菲律宾和拉丁美洲的人会想来这里吗？.. 韩国人会去他们那里吗？
Native
필리핀이랑 라틴아메리카에선 여기ㅠ오고 싶대?.. 한국인들이 걔네들한테 갈 거 같음?..
本地人
菲律宾和拉丁美洲的人会想来这里吗？.. 韩国人会去他们那里吗？
@Admirable-Rain-1676
If it's suspending, not removing, I don't see anyone batting an eye
如果是暂停而不是取消，我看不出有什么大不了的。
If it's suspending, not removing, I don't see anyone batting an eye
如果是暂停而不是取消，我看不出有什么大不了的。
@vincenzo_rocks
Well, this is a first. I'm actually on board with something the Yoon administration is doing.
好吧，这是第一次。我实际上支持尹政府正在做的某件事。
Well, this is a first. I'm actually on board with something the Yoon administration is doing.
好吧，这是第一次。我实际上支持尹政府正在做的某件事。
@Space-Fishes
Bunch of dumbasses? Quite the statement. They can be forced to work since that’s their job. But if they don’t want it. And they’ve quit? Well then they don’t deserve that job back and they should lose their license. It’s called holding someone accountable. Not slavery. You don’t get to hold patients lives as hostage.
一群蠢货？这可真是个强烈的声明。理论上可以强迫他们工作，毕竟那是他们的职责所在。但如果他们不愿意做，并且已经辞职了，那么他们就不配重新得到这份工作，理应吊销其行医执照。这叫做追究责任，而不是强制劳动。你不能拿患者的生命作为人质。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Bunch of dumbasses? Quite the statement. They can be forced to work since that’s their job. But if they don’t want it. And they’ve quit? Well then they don’t deserve that job back and they should lose their license. It’s called holding someone accountable. Not slavery. You don’t get to hold patients lives as hostage.
一群蠢货？这可真是个强烈的声明。理论上可以强迫他们工作，毕竟那是他们的职责所在。但如果他们不愿意做，并且已经辞职了，那么他们就不配重新得到这份工作，理应吊销其行医执照。这叫做追究责任，而不是强制劳动。你不能拿患者的生命作为人质。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@Sloooooooooww
Gov initially threatened with jailtime for not ‘renewing their contract’. That’s fucking insane. Nope. No one can be forced to work unless they are prisoners. If you quit your job, can the gov make you go back to work? No fucking way. How about this? If you are an engineer and you quit from a company, do you lose your qualifications? So in your logic, no doctor should ever quit unless there’s a replacement? Why? Why do you feel so entitled to their labour? So they can’t take one year break? This shit is what I’m talking about. People like you are the reason why Korean drs leave essential specialties. Entitled to the max.
政府最初威胁如果不“续签合同”就要坐牢，这简直太疯狂了。不，除非是囚犯，否则任何人都不能被强迫工作。如果你辞职了，政府还能强迫你回去上班吗？绝对不可能。让我这么说吧，如果你是一名工程师并且从一家公司辞职，你会因此失去资格认证吗？按照你的逻辑，是不是没有找到接替者的医生就不能辞职？为什么？为什么你们觉得如此理所当然地占有他们的劳动力？难道他们连一年的休息时间都不能有吗？这就是我想讨论的问题。像你这样的人正是导致韩国医生离开关键专科岗位的原因。过于自以为是，权利感爆棚。
Gov initially threatened with jailtime for not ‘renewing their contract’. That’s fucking insane. Nope. No one can be forced to work unless they are prisoners. If you quit your job, can the gov make you go back to work? No fucking way. How about this? If you are an engineer and you quit from a company, do you lose your qualifications? So in your logic, no doctor should ever quit unless there’s a replacement? Why? Why do you feel so entitled to their labour? So they can’t take one year break? This shit is what I’m talking about. People like you are the reason why Korean drs leave essential specialties. Entitled to the max.
政府最初威胁如果不“续签合同”就要坐牢，这简直太疯狂了。不，除非是囚犯，否则任何人都不能被强迫工作。如果你辞职了，政府还能强迫你回去上班吗？绝对不可能。让我这么说吧，如果你是一名工程师并且从一家公司辞职，你会因此失去资格认证吗？按照你的逻辑，是不是没有找到接替者的医生就不能辞职？为什么？为什么你们觉得如此理所当然地占有他们的劳动力？难道他们连一年的休息时间都不能有吗？这就是我想讨论的问题。像你这样的人正是导致韩国医生离开关键专科岗位的原因。过于自以为是，权利感爆棚。
@Space-Fishes
Those are not comparable situations. Quitting your job as a doctor because of a protest when people are dying is not the same thing as deciding you don’t want to work as a taxi driver anymore. It’s an abuse of a doctors power as a healthcare provider and is unethical. Doctors who do this absolutely should have their licenses revoked, unable to work anymore if they have such a disregard for human life. You’re the fucking insane one if you can’t see that.
这些情况不可比。因为抗议而辞去医生工作，当人们正在死亡时，这与决定你不再想当出租车司机是不同的。这是滥用医生作为医疗提供者的力量，是不道德的。这样做的医生绝对应该被吊销执照，如果他们如此漠视人命，就不能再工作了。如果你意识不到这一点，你才是他妈的疯了。
Those are not comparable situations. Quitting your job as a doctor because of a protest when people are dying is not the same thing as deciding you don’t want to work as a taxi driver anymore. It’s an abuse of a doctors power as a healthcare provider and is unethical. Doctors who do this absolutely should have their licenses revoked, unable to work anymore if they have such a disregard for human life. You’re the fucking insane one if you can’t see that.
这些情况不可比。因为抗议而辞去医生工作，当人们正在死亡时，这与决定你不再想当出租车司机是不同的。这是滥用医生作为医疗提供者的力量，是不道德的。这样做的医生绝对应该被吊销执照，如果他们如此漠视人命，就不能再工作了。如果你意识不到这一点，你才是他妈的疯了。
@ganjamozart
According to your line of reasoning, can Drs ever strike?
根据你的推理，医生可以罢工吗？
According to your line of reasoning, can Drs ever strike?
根据你的推理，医生可以罢工吗？
@Space-Fishes
While I believe there are ethical ways for doctors to go on strike, I don't consider quitting en masse and submitting resignations to be among them.
虽然我相信你有道德的方式让医生罢工，但我不认为大规模辞职并提交辞职信是其中之一。
While I believe there are ethical ways for doctors to go on strike, I don't consider quitting en masse and submitting resignations to be among them.
虽然我相信你有道德的方式让医生罢工，但我不认为大规模辞职并提交辞职信是其中之一。
@Sloooooooooww
I’ve been to Korean highschool. Also 150k? Lolll There’s not a single dr who makes that unless they work 2 day a week max. In BC Family Docs get paid 375k base from gov. You can check their gov billings online- they take 70-90% home. Of course you can private bill with cosmetics and bill more. 100% of Canadian doctors are incorporated, which means they take salary out of their company and park the rest of the money so you won’t see it accurately on ‘glassdoor’. 0 of my colleagues would go work in Korea because u get paid next to nothing. As a new grad fam doc (lowest pay), you’ll make 300k guaranteed. Most docs make 1-2k a day. Hospitalist make $300/hr. Of course specialists make way more. Close to 700-1mil. A fucking hygienist makes 150k lol
我去过韩国高中就读，至于你说的年薪15万美金？哈哈，除非每周只工作两天，否则不会有医生挣那么少。在加拿大BC省，家庭医生的基本工资是由政府支付的，能达到37.5万加元。你可以在线查看他们的政府收费情况——他们通常能将70%-90%的收入带回家。当然，他们还可以通过提供化妆品等私人服务额外收费，增加收入。所有加拿大的医生都是注册成立公司的，这意味着他们会从公司领取薪水，并将剩余资金留存，所以你在类似"玻璃门"这样的网站上看到的数据并不准确。
我的同事们没有一个愿意去韩国工作，因为在那里的收入几乎可以忽略不计。作为一名刚毕业的家庭医生（收入最低），也能保证年收入至少30万加元。大多数医生每天能赚取1000至2000加元。医院内科医生每小时能赚300加元。当然，专科医生的收入更高，接近70万至100万加元。就连牙科保健员都能挣到15万加元，哈哈。
I’ve been to Korean highschool. Also 150k? Lolll There’s not a single dr who makes that unless they work 2 day a week max. In BC Family Docs get paid 375k base from gov. You can check their gov billings online- they take 70-90% home. Of course you can private bill with cosmetics and bill more. 100% of Canadian doctors are incorporated, which means they take salary out of their company and park the rest of the money so you won’t see it accurately on ‘glassdoor’. 0 of my colleagues would go work in Korea because u get paid next to nothing. As a new grad fam doc (lowest pay), you’ll make 300k guaranteed. Most docs make 1-2k a day. Hospitalist make $300/hr. Of course specialists make way more. Close to 700-1mil. A fucking hygienist makes 150k lol
我去过韩国高中就读，至于你说的年薪15万美金？哈哈，除非每周只工作两天，否则不会有医生挣那么少。在加拿大BC省，家庭医生的基本工资是由政府支付的，能达到37.5万加元。你可以在线查看他们的政府收费情况——他们通常能将70%-90%的收入带回家。当然，他们还可以通过提供化妆品等私人服务额外收费，增加收入。所有加拿大的医生都是注册成立公司的，这意味着他们会从公司领取薪水，并将剩余资金留存，所以你在类似"玻璃门"这样的网站上看到的数据并不准确。
我的同事们没有一个愿意去韩国工作，因为在那里的收入几乎可以忽略不计。作为一名刚毕业的家庭医生（收入最低），也能保证年收入至少30万加元。大多数医生每天能赚取1000至2000加元。医院内科医生每小时能赚300加元。当然，专科医生的收入更高，接近70万至100万加元。就连牙科保健员都能挣到15万加元，哈哈。
@lastdropfalls
They didn't quit. They want to keep their jobs, and will come back to working if and when government caves in to their demands (hopefully won't come to that, though).
他们没有辞职。他们想要保住自己的工作，如果政府屈服于他们的要求，他们会回来工作的（希望事情不会发展到那一步）。
They didn't quit. They want to keep their jobs, and will come back to working if and when government caves in to their demands (hopefully won't come to that, though).
他们没有辞职。他们想要保住自己的工作，如果政府屈服于他们的要求，他们会回来工作的（希望事情不会发展到那一步）。
@hphCol
People be worrying about the quota when the real problem is the risk of privatization of the medical system by the new policies.. But also the quota, although necessary, is unfounded (the evidence the govt used for the quota has been proven false).
人们在担心配额问题，而真正的问题是新政策带来的医疗系统私有化的风险。但配额问题，虽然必要，却是没有根据的（政府用来设定配额的证据已被证明是错误的）。
People be worrying about the quota when the real problem is the risk of privatization of the medical system by the new policies.. But also the quota, although necessary, is unfounded (the evidence the govt used for the quota has been proven false).
人们在担心配额问题，而真正的问题是新政策带来的医疗系统私有化的风险。但配额问题，虽然必要，却是没有根据的（政府用来设定配额的证据已被证明是错误的）。
@drshikamaru
If a doctor finished their shift for the day and then said I’m not showing up tomorrow, you’ll are own you’ll own. That is not abandonment. that is acceptable protest. They are not actively responsible for anyone.
如果一名医生完成了一天的工作后宣布明天不再出现，那么他们在这一天结束时就已经尽完了职责，这不是遗弃行为，这是一种合理的抗议方式。他们在下班后就不对任何人负有积极的责任了。
If a doctor finished their shift for the day and then said I’m not showing up tomorrow, you’ll are own you’ll own. That is not abandonment. that is acceptable protest. They are not actively responsible for anyone.
如果一名医生完成了一天的工作后宣布明天不再出现，那么他们在这一天结束时就已经尽完了职责，这不是遗弃行为，这是一种合理的抗议方式。他们在下班后就不对任何人负有积极的责任了。
@CompetitionOk2693
If patients have scheduled care with the doctor and they cancel by participating in a mass strike. That seems morally questionable to me. Especially in a mass-strike where they know rescheduling will be more difficult for the patient.
如果有患者已经预约了医生进行治疗，而医生由于参与大规模罢工而取消诊疗，我认为这种做法在道德层面上是有问题的，特别是当医生明知罢工会导致患者重新安排就诊变得极其困难时。
If patients have scheduled care with the doctor and they cancel by participating in a mass strike. That seems morally questionable to me. Especially in a mass-strike where they know rescheduling will be more difficult for the patient.
如果有患者已经预约了医生进行治疗，而医生由于参与大规模罢工而取消诊疗，我认为这种做法在道德层面上是有问题的，特别是当医生明知罢工会导致患者重新安排就诊变得极其困难时。
@IvanThePohBear
kill the chicken to warn the monkey.
this is a classic asian tactic to make the rest fall in line
杀鸡儆猴。
这是一个经典的亚洲策略，用来警告其他人，使其遵守规定。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
kill the chicken to warn the monkey.
this is a classic asian tactic to make the rest fall in line
杀鸡儆猴。
这是一个经典的亚洲策略，用来警告其他人，使其遵守规定。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@admiralturtleship
There are 138 comments on this post at the time of me writing this and NO ONE has even mentioned the core issue that the doctors keep bringing up
Increasing the number of doctors DOES NOT INCENTIVIZE DOCTORS TO WORK AT FACILITIES THAT ARE NOT ENTICING TO WORK AT.
在我写这篇文章时，有138条评论，但没有人提到医生一直提出的核心问题
增加医生的数量并不会激励医生去那些不吸引人工作的设施工作。
There are 138 comments on this post at the time of me writing this and NO ONE has even mentioned the core issue that the doctors keep bringing up
Increasing the number of doctors DOES NOT INCENTIVIZE DOCTORS TO WORK AT FACILITIES THAT ARE NOT ENTICING TO WORK AT.
在我写这篇文章时，有138条评论，但没有人提到医生一直提出的核心问题
增加医生的数量并不会激励医生去那些不吸引人工作的设施工作。
@ktaktb
That's not how markets work. More doctors = more doctors pushed into all specialties and areas.
市场不是这样运作的。更多的医生意味着更多的医生被推向所有专业和领域。
That's not how markets work. More doctors = more doctors pushed into all specialties and areas.
市场不是这样运作的。更多的医生意味着更多的医生被推向所有专业和领域。
@BlueRain1819
Believe or not, Korea is a socialist society that government dictates a lot of things.
Medical is one of those - that Government has upper hand.
As a single payer for medical practice, government is responsible to make sure there is enough providers.
信不信由你，韩国是一个政府主导并干预很多事务的社会主义社会。
医疗行业就是其中之一，政府在这方面握有较大权力。
作为医疗服务单一支付方，韩国政府负责确保有足够的医疗服务提供者。
Believe or not, Korea is a socialist society that government dictates a lot of things.
Medical is one of those - that Government has upper hand.
As a single payer for medical practice, government is responsible to make sure there is enough providers.
信不信由你，韩国是一个政府主导并干预很多事务的社会主义社会。
医疗行业就是其中之一，政府在这方面握有较大权力。
作为医疗服务单一支付方，韩国政府负责确保有足够的医疗服务提供者。
@PuzzleheadedBet6081
Absolutely. Showing their true character. Medical school isn’t about money and prestige. It’s about saving lives.
确实如此。这揭示了他们真正的品质。医学院的学习并不仅仅是关于金钱和声望，而是关乎拯救生命。
Absolutely. Showing their true character. Medical school isn’t about money and prestige. It’s about saving lives.
确实如此。这揭示了他们真正的品质。医学院的学习并不仅仅是关于金钱和声望，而是关乎拯救生命。
@llulu345
Currently, the conflict between the Korean government and the medical community remains unresolved, with the strike actions continuing and significantly impacting medical services in South Korea. Negotiations and dialogues between the government and the medical sector are still ongoing, but specific solutions and the ultimate outcome of the strike have not yet been clarified.
目前，韩国政府和医疗界之间的矛盾尚未得到解决，罢工行动仍在继续，对韩国的医疗服务造成了显著影响。政府和医疗界之间的谈判和对话仍在进行中，但具体的解决方案和罢工的最终结果尚未明确。
Currently, the conflict between the Korean government and the medical community remains unresolved, with the strike actions continuing and significantly impacting medical services in South Korea. Negotiations and dialogues between the government and the medical sector are still ongoing, but specific solutions and the ultimate outcome of the strike have not yet been clarified.
目前，韩国政府和医疗界之间的矛盾尚未得到解决，罢工行动仍在继续，对韩国的医疗服务造成了显著影响。政府和医疗界之间的谈判和对话仍在进行中，但具体的解决方案和罢工的最终结果尚未明确。
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